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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 20, 2017 11:10:42 GMT -5
I should have played the lottery, a lot of people didn't believe it was the flywheel, but now that I have two flywheels to compare, the issue is obvious, as soon as it warms up, I'll swap it out, apparently the trigger tab is more then one piece, I don't know if it's glued on, welded on, or what, but half of the tab is missing on mine. the piece on top is machined and looks like a stator pole piece, so it may in fact be lines up with a magnetic pole, but it's simply missing on mine. sorry if the pictures are blurry, this is the only camera I have with macro, and the magnets are messing with it. original flywheel  new flywheel  |
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 20, 2017 14:07:13 GMT -5
what's even stranger is I can't figure out what was holding on the piece on the old flywheel, I see no evidence of a spot weld, or anything that would have held it on. I can find no reference to this happening anywhere on the net, but the problem is clear as day when you see both flywheels
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Post by gsx600racer on Nov 20, 2017 17:17:47 GMT -5
Chances are that the metal "tab" on the outer flywheel was spot/resistance brazed on. Before you say there are no spot welding marks, imagine it getting brazed on(like the spot welding process and a brazing paste is applied between the 2 parts), then put in a polisher(to remove the bluing from the heat) then zinc plated(yellow finish) or Also it would be nice to see the side by side comparison of both flywheels.(both front and back) Like this.  Be interesting to see if the tabs are in the same location. |
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 20, 2017 17:42:57 GMT -5
I have a good ignition signal now, but still no spark, so there is probably something stupid I overlooked when I put everything together, I've got signal reaching the CDI and 73 volts reaching it on cranking, and a good ground, no kill switch ground, the coil is a yahmaha and it's good, already tested and almost new. and I had a good spark before with it. the coil has a solid ground, the case ground is solid. it's getting dark out and cold, so more tomorrow. I tested it with a grounded plug.
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 20, 2017 18:00:40 GMT -5
I ordered the flywheel from parts for scooters, it's made for a 139QMB, and they both have the same part numbers stamped in the flywheel. If they spot welded on the top of the trigger, and it came off, I still should see heat marks in the remaining part, I spot weld all the time, and I'm very familiar with the process. At least one issue is fixed,and I now have a timing signal. my snap on 3/8 drive, I keep in my tools onboard, I rescued it from scrap, all it needed was a little grease. I made a light weight chromalloy cheater bar for it.   proper flywheel removal tool  old and new flywheel    |
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 21, 2017 2:12:00 GMT -5
Somebody at the factory used JB Weld....
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 21, 2017 13:16:54 GMT -5
What did you add to the "new" flywheel? It looks like you put something on the pickup...The pickup height should be about 1.7mm, yours looks thicker. thats the way it came. I have a good pickup signal now, but still no spark, I also discovered the kickstand switch was intermittent, so I bypassed it, to discover the kickstand is riveted on.so I'l put another switch on when I can get one. but it's out of the kill switch circuit. it's not rocket science on this ignition, it's voltage in from the stator, trigger voltage, ground, kill switch, and voltage out to the coil, and everything checks ok, but even with multiple CDIs no spark or voltage out to the coil. It's got to be something stupid. |
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 21, 2017 22:51:30 GMT -5
still no spark, but now I have a good ignition trigger signal, I have good cranking voltage to the CDI, wiring was good, but no voltage out to the coil, with my bizarre bad luck I have three bad CDI boxes, but I'll do more testing tomorrow, I redid the ignition harness again, aerospace grade wire, I even soldered a pigtail on the coil tab, I just need to add a connector to the kill switch wire, the rest of the harness of course is independent of anything but the stator. If i still don't have a spark it's a CDI box or the coil, but I can't measure any voltage into the coil. I can't get one electrical gremlin, I have to get numerous ones at one time. I also discovered the side stand kill switch was intermittent, even when up, it would randomly cause a ground, I have it bypassed for now, I was just going to remove it, but discovered the pivot bolt isn't a bolt, but a rivet. My stand kill switch is simple, it grounds when down, (or sometimes when up  ) and all my kill switches tie together.  |
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 21, 2017 22:54:59 GMT -5
I'm not using the orange CDI except to test for spark with a plug, too much advance for anything else
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 21, 2017 23:01:39 GMT -5
Chances are that the metal "tab" on the outer flywheel was spot/resistance brazed on. Before you say there are no spot welding marks, imagine it getting brazed on(like the spot welding process and a brazing paste is applied between the 2 parts), then put in a polisher(to remove the bluing from the heat) then zinc plated(yellow finish) or Also it would be nice to see the side by side comparison of both flywheels.(both front and back) Like this.  Be interesting to see if the tabs are in the same location. interesting, as I'm putting parts together now, that get hydrogen brazed, I put copper wires around the bearing tubes, put the top half of the wheel donuts on, put it in the press, then spot weld it under pressure, before it gets sent to be hydrogen brazed in a furnace, the copper wire melts , fusing the bottom of the tube, this year I'm going to try some copper bearing flux in there too, they braze the outside with it, but we've never used it ourselves, It just got here Friday, the stuff is really hard to get ahold of.    |
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Post by gsx600racer on Nov 21, 2017 23:41:31 GMT -5
Chances are that the metal "tab" on the outer flywheel was spot/resistance brazed on. Before you say there are no spot welding marks, imagine it getting brazed on(like the spot welding process and a brazing paste is applied between the 2 parts), then put in a polisher(to remove the bluing from the heat) then zinc plated(yellow finish) or Also it would be nice to see the side by side comparison of both flywheels.(both front and back) Like this. Be interesting to see if the tabs are in the same location. interesting, as I'm putting parts together now, that get hydrogen brazed, I put copper wires around the bearing tubes, put the top half of the wheel donuts on, put it in the press, then spot weld it under pressure, before it gets sent to be hydrogen brazed in a furnace, the copper wire melts , fusing the bottom of the tube, this year I'm going to try some copper bearing flux in there too, they braze the outside with it, but we've never used it ourselves, It just got here Friday, the stuff is really hard to get ahold of. Sweet, Now you just need to figure out how to get that scooter of yours running again.  |
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 21, 2017 23:49:15 GMT -5
I just figured out something, my brand new I mean never run stator is bad, I was testing charge coil volts out of circuit, and getting 78 cranking volts, just tested them in circuit DUH!!  and I get 40 volts cranking, so the stator is crap, new 8 pole flywheel just like the original. It's from parts for scooters so it should be good, so it's most likely a bad charge coil.  I'm not going back out in the cold and rain and laying on the ground to change it, I'm too disgusted, I'll wait until tomorrow |
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 27, 2017 14:40:57 GMT -5
Ok, I'm down to a bad coil, voltage in,no spark out, one is on the way,it's been a horrible series of broken and defective parts all at one time
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Post by lostforawhile on Nov 28, 2017 1:13:52 GMT -5
ok just ordered one from amazon with rush shipping, it will be here Wednesday, the guy I ordered the original one from says he's going to replace it, but I haven't seen one and he may flake. It should be running hopefully then
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Post by lostforawhile on Dec 1, 2017 0:25:02 GMT -5
the last mystery solved, the ground pin inside of the CDI connector was almost broken in half, and making intermittent contact, it started up and ran, then the pin broke the rest of the way. I just ordered some pins from parts for scooters. I'll just replace all five.
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) and all my kill switches tie together. 
and I get 40 volts cranking, so the stator is crap, new 8 pole flywheel just like the original. It's from parts for scooters so it should be good, so it's most likely a bad charge coil. 
I'm not going back out in the cold and rain and laying on the ground to change it, I'm too disgusted, I'll wait until tomorrow