SOLVED! Torque Driver Questions

[greginisn]

Hi,

Assuming this grease strung out along the whole length of the CVT cover is not normal, especially since it found it’s way into the clutch bell too. I realize the torque driver seals must be bad so I’d like to replace them, if possible.





1 I’m having a tough time removing the big nut and I have applied a little penetrating oil to the threads and I am waiting for tomorrow to give the nut another whack or two to loosen it.

2 What size O rings are used as seals?

2a And who sells them?

I’ve googled around a bit and have found no one that sells TD seals. I wonder if I should abandon repair ideas and just replace the torque driver. But since my scooter was new this year and has less than 200 distance units on it, I’m a bit leery that new is any guarantee of good quality. After all my scoot was new too.

Thanks for your help.

Greg

[lostforawhile]

the nut holding the clutch on,or the nut holding the clutch together? you need to compress the spring before dismantling the clutch. the big nut on the clutch needs to be broken loose slightly, then the spring gets compressed, then it comes off

[greginisn]

I’m refering to the BIG nut. This one measures about 39mm. I have the clutch unit removed from the scooter and am trying to get into the torque driver spring area.

Greg

I’ve watched Brent’s video plus another on youtube so I think I know what to expect if I get it apart.

[90GTVert]

PFS shows seals and specs. When looking for stock parts for the 139QMB, PFS is usually a good source to check first because they provide a lot of diagrams and carry most parts and show specs even for some they don't have.
www.partsforscooters.com/scooter-parts-diagrams/50cc-QMB139-4-Stroke-Clutch-and-Variator-Parts_2?range=31%2C58%2C58

I use Permatex Ultra Grey on my torque driver cap bases sometimes. It's not supposed to be necessary, but when I see grease slung out, I add the sealant on reassembly.

I use an impact on mine. Not really a fan of the whacking method with the big adjustable wrench, but I know a lot of people like it. Also have used a vise and oil filter wrench in the past and have a vid of that if it's of any use.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5JSq2VdYU

[scooterted]

Dec 2, 2017 6:14:37 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

I use an impact on mine. Not really a fan of the whacking method with the big adjustable wrench, but I know a lot of people like it.

Im glad im not the only one doing this. Theres not many threads on that nut. Im really gentle tightening that nut. Ill order a spare next time i purchase parta.

[greginisn]

Dec 2, 2017 6:14:37 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

PFS shows seals and specs. When looking for stock parts for the 139QMB, PFS is usually a good source to check first because they provide a lot of diagrams and carry most parts and show specs even for some they don't have.
www.partsforscooters.com/scooter-parts-diagrams/50cc-QMB139-4-Stroke-Clutch-and-Variator-Parts_2?range=31%2C58%2C58

I use Permatex Ultra Grey on my torque driver cap bases sometimes. It's not supposed to be necessary, but when I see grease slung out, I add the sealant on reassembly.

I use an impact on mine. Not really a fan of the whacking method with the big adjustable wrench, but I know a lot of people like it. Also have used a vise and oil filter wrench in the past and have a vid of that if it's of any use.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5JSq2VdYU

Brent,

I was aware of PFS but had never explored them that deeply. Thanks, great tip and just what I was looking for. It is a little hard to find a 39mm socket here.  The best I could do in town would be a 1 9/16" socket which is real close in size but it wasn't an impact socket and it was a 12 pointer and needed a 3/4" drive.

I've tried your strap wrench method with no success. My wrench has a heavy duty rubber strap so maybe that's the problem but even with some leather scraps wrapped around the clutch it still didn't work. So I tried the slapping wrench on the floor method using a pipe wrench, no luck either.  

That pretty much just leaves the impact tool for my next attempt. I've found a nice 39mm socket on Amazon and will order it as soon as ETA is OK with my schedule.

I don't understand where it is that you are using the Permatex compound tho, would you explain that a little more to a scooter noobe?

Thanks, Greg

[90GTVert]

I have ordered all of my sockets online. Often easier said than done, but the trick is to try to have them before you need them.

Plain application.


Smeared around.

[Corrosion]

I flip the pulley upside down, putting the large Nut in my Bench Vise, I then put an oil filter wrench around the pulley. I have removed over torqued nuts with ease this way. It gives a good feel when you flip over the wrench to tighten.

Granted you do need an appropriately sized oil filter wrench & a band-style oil filter wrench and a decent Bench Vise.

[greginisn]

Dec 3, 2017 6:29:45 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

I have ordered all of my sockets online. Often easier said than done, but the trick is to try to have them before you need them.

Plain application.


Smeared around.

Brent,

Thanks for the extra photos. I've always had pretty good luck with RTV and that looks like a great seal. That may be all I need to do to my scoot but won't know until I get it apart. I noticed in your video showing disassembly with Impact driver, I think, that the inner grease seal groove spans the gap over the TD slider guide pins. That looks like a real iffy way to seal things up. We will be driving to Minot ND soon and will check there for a 39mm socket before I make an order. So here's hoping they'll have one in stock.

Greg

[greginisn]

Dec 3, 2017 11:49:18 GMT -5 Corrosion said:

I flip the pulley upside down, putting the large Nut in my Bench Vise, I then put an oil filter wrench around the pulley. I have removed over torqued nuts with ease this way. It gives a good feel when you flip over the wrench to tighten.

Granted you do need an appropriately sized oil filter wrench & a band-style oil filter wrench and a decent Bench Vise.

Since I already have the impact tool and the costs for a better "strap wrench" and the 39mm socket kind of balance out and I do like using the impact tool I'm going to go that way. Having already tried and failed with the upside down in the vise method I feel no need to pursue that idea.

Greg

[greginisn]

SOLVED  

What's happened since then.

I got the torque driver apart with the impact gun and a 39mm socket. That sucker was tight, it took some 6 hits from the impact gun to spin the nut off. No way that was coming off slapping wrenches on the floor. 


3 More photos.


Some of the grease that was slung out made it into the clutch bell but somehow the scooter still seemed to be running OK and that surprised me a lot. After seeing there was a problem I would have expected a lot of clutch slippage, but no.  The bell and pads seemed to have cleaned up OK.








If I were to guess I'd say the factory installed O-Ring was a size too big and slid out of the groove when the cover was installed. The o-ring was kind of mashed down about 90 degrees off from the line of the groove it should have been in. Not normal positioning at all!

Now that I know what I've got wrong I'll order the parts to fix this plus new seals and some other bits, just because I can get them and make it newer than it was new.  


Greg

[greginisn]

Another Final thing.

Remember when removing the torque driver guide pin cover, be careful! There are three (3) guide pins in there and they may fall out and could get lost. Even with all the grease in there they may not stay in place. Ask me how I know. 

So Be Careful.

Those pins are hard to find on the floor and harder to find on the internet (other than Parts For Scooters).