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Post by jwinn on Jul 8, 2018 16:04:51 GMT -5
Changing spark plug to ngk iridium today. After research and looking at the old plug i don't know if it's running rich or lean. Could someone school me please. Also, it seems they had it gapped around 0.022, gauge slid in fairly easy and 0.024 needed a push. Thanks for any help.
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Post by jackrides on Jul 8, 2018 16:45:59 GMT -5
Interesting difference. First guess (weak) is lean with the electrode stump facing the intake valve. More likely is that a proper plug reading needs to be taken. Any given plug reading is only good for one throttle setting (wide open [main jet] or half throttle [needle position]. Plenty info on site for more specifics.
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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 12, 2018 21:22:13 GMT -5
looks more like too much oil and too cold a plug
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Jul 12, 2018 21:44:57 GMT -5
What kind of scooter? 2T or 4T? If a 4T it looks a bit on the rich side. If a 2T then like Harley said...too much oil.
Bill
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Post by jwinn on Jul 13, 2018 5:08:08 GMT -5
What kind of scooter? 2T or 4T? If a 4T it looks a bit on the rich side. If a 2T then like Harley said...too much oil. Bill It's a 50cc 4T. Just took it in for break-in service last weekend and that was the plug they put in after a day and a half. Using feeler gauge it looked like it had about a 0.022-0.023 gap. I went ahead and bought an ngk iridium and gapped it at 0.024. This weekend i'll take that one out and look at it. Sorry, but what do you mean by "too much oil"? Checked the oil after service and the oil level was high up on the stick when cold. Just above the laxt 'X'. On a side note, after gapping the new plug at 0.024 when the engine gets warmed up it likes to cut out if i am at a stop and go wot on moving. I have to give it just a little throttle for a second on moving before full throttle. Thanks for the replies.
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Jul 13, 2018 9:05:49 GMT -5
What kind of scooter? 2T or 4T? If a 4T it looks a bit on the rich side. If a 2T then like Harley said...too much oil. Bill It's a 50cc 4T. Just took it in for break-in service last weekend and that was the plug they put in after a day and a half. Using feeler gauge it looked like it had about a 0.022-0.023 gap. I went ahead and bought an ngk iridium and gapped it at 0.024. This weekend i'll take that one out and look at it. Sorry, but what do you mean by "too much oil"? Checked the oil after service and the oil level was high up on the stick when cold. Just above the laxt 'X'. On a side note, after gapping the new plug at 0.024 when the engine gets warmed up it likes to cut out if i am at a stop and go wot on moving. I have to give it just a little throttle for a second on moving before full throttle. Thanks for the replies. I said that IF it was a 2T then it is getting too much oil in the mix but, since it is a 4T this does not apply and it is just on the rich side but, being that the engine was being broken in, and probably still is, some oil deposits on the plug would not worry me at all. Bill
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 14, 2018 11:58:08 GMT -5
jwinn:"On a side note, after gapping the new plug at 0.024 when the engine gets warmed up it likes to cut out if i am at a stop and go wot on moving. I have to give it just a little throttle for a second on moving before full throttle."
What does this mean? From a stop, the engine falls on its face a bit when you pull the throttle to wide open?
If you 'have to give it just a little throttle for a second...', then I would suggest that your accelerator pump is not working or not adjusted to squirt in some fuel on throttle opening. The 'blade' on the backside(rear) of the linkage will push on the pump rod as you open the throttle. If it does not push RIGHT AWAY, it won't do its job, as you are past the range where it is supposed to help. Adjust(bend the leafy metal) to make the linkage push on the accelerator pump shaft right as the throttle is opened. My suggestion, anyway. tom
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Post by jwinn on Jul 15, 2018 6:55:04 GMT -5
What does this mean? From a stop, the engine falls on its face a bit when you pull the throttle to wide open? First, i stated the wrong gap (prolonged brain fart i guess). I gapped the plug at 0.026. Not 0.024. In the mornings on the way to work, approximately 15 miles, it will run pretty good. But on the way home, around 5pm in hot orlando heat, that's when it boggs down, from a dead stop to wot. Incidentally, i got a new plug and gapped it at 0.024. 0.002 more than what the scooter shop had gapped it at. Right now it seems to be running better. Smoother idle, doesn't vibrate as much when tucked and running around 46-48 mph. Have to wait till monday on the way home from work to see how it performs.
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Moat
Scoot Member
Posts: 88
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Post by Moat on Jul 15, 2018 7:18:47 GMT -5
Both the slightly carbon-fouled plug and the impression that it runs better in the cooler, morning weather points to a too-rich condition. Is the bike bone-stock? Or has the shop messed with the engine/carb/air filter/pipe/etc? Out of the crate, it seems most scoots are a bit on the lean side, if anything (presumably for emission reasons) - so I'd take a WAG that yours has been toyed with at some point...
Although... a misfire/bog at high throttle openings can also be a sign of a weak spark - the dirty plug being the remnants of the incompletely burned fuel resulting from such a misfire.
Bob
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Post by jwinn on Jul 15, 2018 7:25:54 GMT -5
Both the slightly carbon-fouled plug and the impression that it runs better in the cooler, morning weather points to a too-rich condition. Is the bike bone-stock? Or has the shop messed with the engine/carb/air filter/pipe/etc? Out of the crate, it seems most scoots are a bit on the lean side, if anything (presumably for emission reasons) - so I'd take a WAG that yours has been toyed with at some point... Bob Pure stock. Only 1 oil change after 100 miles or so then break-in service around 400 miles. And different size plug gaps. After break-in service plug gap was 0.022. I replaced it with a new ngk iridium and 0.026 gap. Yesterday i put in another plug and gapped it at 0.024. I doubt the shop did anything to it. Sales guy is nice but mechanics seem they will only do what they have to. They had a dozen scoots back in the service area. "Get it in, get it out attitude". Also, after the 0.024 gap, i ran it for about 20 mins around 5:30pm. Still a bit hot at that time in orlando. Which is around the time i get off work mon-fri and start the 15 mile ride home.
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Moat
Scoot Member
Posts: 88
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Post by Moat on Jul 15, 2018 7:39:33 GMT -5
Also, just thought I'd mention if you weren't already aware - the fine-wire center electrode on iridium plugs is very delicate, and can be easily damaged/ruined if gapped by wedging something between that fine center electrode and the large side ground electrode, as is often done with a conventional plug. IOW - apply bending force to the ground electrode only. Just FYI, FWIW...
Bob
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Post by jwinn on Jul 15, 2018 8:23:44 GMT -5
Also, just thought I'd mention if you weren't already aware - the fine-wire center electrode on iridium plugs is very delicate, and can be easily damaged/ruined if gapped by wedging something between that fine center electrode and the large side ground electrode, as is often done with a conventional plug. IOW - apply bending force to the ground electrode only. Just FYI, FWIW... Bob 😬 Thanks. I'll slide in the smallest feeler and work up, instead of ramming in the size i want. As careful as i can.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 15, 2018 10:10:21 GMT -5
You do not need the 'fancy' plugs for this thing to run perfectly. Any old plug should do the job if it is in decent condition and has the proper heat range. You do not even need 'resistor' plugs. There are approximately 3.583067120630672 billion GY6/139qmb engines running in the Far East, South Pacific, Europe and the rest of the world where el-cheapo brand sparking plugs are the only style available. This engine was designed to run on the lowest common denominator. Put in some el-cheapo plugs, and bend away. As far as the .022 - .026 it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. All observed performance changes are likely illusory and related to expectations. "Measure with a micrometer, mark with a carpenter's pencil, cut with a chainsaw." In the long run, and likely short run, it won't matter. But, you can have fun determining if I am blowing smoke.
I still don't understand what the engine is doing, in the heat of the afternoon will full-tilt FloridUH humidity. (I like Florida, have multi-family in the TPA area & Lake City) Does it hesitate on first acceleration from stop? Does it stutter partway up to full speed? Does it bump/stutter/herky-jerky while running at/near WOT/top speed? Does it misfire at top speed? I doan geddit. tom
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Post by jwinn on Jul 15, 2018 11:09:44 GMT -5
You do not need the 'fancy' plugs for this thing to run perfectly. Any old plug should do the job if it is in decent condition and has the proper heat range. You do not even need 'resistor' plugs. There are approximately 3.583067120630672 billion GY6/139qmb engines running in the Far East, South Pacific, Europe and the rest of the world where el-cheapo brand sparking plugs are the only style available. This engine was designed to run on the lowest common denominator. Put in some el-cheapo plugs, and bend away. As far as the .022 - .026 it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. All observed performance changes are likely illusory and related to expectations. "Measure with a micrometer, mark with a carpenter's pencil, cut with a chainsaw." In the long run, and likely short run, it won't matter. But, you can have fun determining if I am blowing smoke. I still don't understand what the engine is doing, in the heat of the afternoon will full-tilt FloridUH humidity. (I like Florida, have multi-family in the TPA area & Lake City) Does it hesitate on first acceleration from stop? Does it stutter partway up to full speed? Does it bump/stutter/herky-jerky while running at/near WOT/top speed? Does it misfire at top speed? I doan geddit. tom Thanks for the info, Tom. Being a noob, not even a semi-gearhead, i'm starting to realize now about the spark plug..."better" plug does not mean better performance. As for the engine...in the morning around 7am going to work 15 miles away basically in city driving, the engine runs good. Around 5:30pm coming home in 85°-90° heat the engine still runs pretty good. But if i stop at a light, on green if i go straight to wot the engine will bog down like it wants to cut out. And it has several times (keep in mind this started after i gapped the plug at 0.026). So instead of going wot from a dead stop i have to give the throttle about 1/4 turn till i get going around 5-8 mph. Then i go wot and it runs fine. I've since gapped a new plug at 0.024. I'll have to wait till monday after work to see if anything changes.
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Post by jwinn on Jul 16, 2018 17:34:54 GMT -5
After taking out the spark plug on saturday gapped at 0.026 and replacing it with a new one gapped at 0.024, no problems on the ride home today with going wot from a dead stop. Runs and sounds much better.
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