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Post by humanshield on Jul 31, 2018 13:59:11 GMT -5
I've kind of been figuring out my problems with the 17/49 final drive gears. I swapped out my SSP-G performance variator, ramp, and glide keys for stock which brought back my top end RPMs. Definitely something wrong with the SSP-G variator, which I suspect is either a loose glide key, or defect in machining from the factory. It now gets to the top end smoothly and has a higher RPM when it gets there. Still a top speed of 43mph, but now at 8100rpm unlike the 7100-7300rpm before. I'm thinking of trying 7.5g sliders instead of the 7gs for more top end, or just going back to the stock final drive gears... I just came in from the garage. The final 2.88 drive gears are out but I don't have a press so I'm trying to figure out how to press the 17/49 gears out and return my final drive to stock. I dread having to go to HF and spend $200 ($158.00 with a coupon) on a press but I tried the brass hammer approach and after beating up the brass hammer pretty bad, the gears haven't budged.
I'm 100% convinced the 17/49 gears are just a bit too much for most upgraded 50cc 4T scoots....even with a 50mm BBK and cam and some other light mods. You'd have to go stroker and a bit more exotic stuff to get even a 50mm BBK scoot to push these gears on top end (bottom end and mid range is ok kinda)
So, I'm going back to the original final gearing of 14/52 (3.71) and install a brand new belt. I think my drive belt has worn enough to get narrower and that's why my top end has suffered. Common common stuff....I feel like an idiot.
That said, I do think a change to a 3.40 ratio might be good compared to 3.71, at least with a 50mm BBK or above.
As always....YMMV.
I just have to decide if I'm gonna get a bigger hammer and keep whacking....(and possibly damage the gear shaft) or go ahead and plunk down the money for a press. I'm REALLY outta room in my garage is the problem. I gots da money. But then I'll have this big press in there year round, taking up space that I'll probably hardly ever use.
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Post by dexameth on Jul 31, 2018 14:58:43 GMT -5
I've kind of been figuring out my problems with the 17/49 final drive gears. I swapped out my SSP-G performance variator, ramp, and glide keys for stock which brought back my top end RPMs. Definitely something wrong with the SSP-G variator, which I suspect is either a loose glide key, or defect in machining from the factory. It now gets to the top end smoothly and has a higher RPM when it gets there. Still a top speed of 43mph, but now at 8100rpm unlike the 7100-7300rpm before. I'm thinking of trying 7.5g sliders instead of the 7gs for more top end, or just going back to the stock final drive gears... Did you try different weights with the SSP-G variator? I was just inspecting that one today against Koso and Polini and I really like the design of our SSP-G. The ramps are WAY longer than stock, very smooth, just all around better than stock. The issue is the weight of the rollers being 8g; that is too heavy for your setup. Did you try your 7g sliders in that variator? I think you'll like the results if you dial in the weight better. I have a 93.4cc stroker 139QMB and I run 7g sliders in a Polini variator and love it. The SSP-G variator is very close to Polini's, just ours has longer ramps for higher speeds.
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Post by dexameth on Jul 31, 2018 15:00:56 GMT -5
But then I'll have this big press in there year round, taking up space that I'll probably hardly ever use.
you know, Harbor Freight has a no-questions-asked 90 day return policy on EVERYTHING they sell... you could purchase it, use it and then return it. I know it's not the nicest thing to do, but if you're in a pinch...
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mistab
Scoot Junior
BRRRAP BRRRAP
Posts: 7
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Post by mistab on Jul 31, 2018 15:16:42 GMT -5
Did you try different weights with the SSP-G variator? I was just inspecting that one today against Koso and Polini and I really like the design of our SSP-G. The ramps are WAY longer than stock, very smooth, just all around better than stock. The issue is the weight of the rollers being 8g; that is too heavy for your setup. Did you try your 7g sliders in that variator? I think you'll like the results if you dial in the weight better. I have a 93.4cc stroker 139QMB and I run 7g sliders in a Polini variator and love it. The SSP-G variator is very close to Polini's, just ours has longer ramps for higher speeds. Yeah I have the 7g sliders in now, and it stays in the proper power band from 0-42mph then the RPMs climb to about 8k and the top speed just kind of flattens out at 42-43mph @8-8200rpm... I also ran the 7gs with the SSP-G variator, but it just didn't work well. I did notice 1 of 3 glide keys that came with it is extremely loose, and the back ramp plate gets caught up on the driveshaft... One or possibly both causing an issue and leaving me -$50
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Post by dexameth on Jul 31, 2018 15:43:02 GMT -5
Did you try different weights with the SSP-G variator? I was just inspecting that one today against Koso and Polini and I really like the design of our SSP-G. The ramps are WAY longer than stock, very smooth, just all around better than stock. The issue is the weight of the rollers being 8g; that is too heavy for your setup. Did you try your 7g sliders in that variator? I think you'll like the results if you dial in the weight better. I have a 93.4cc stroker 139QMB and I run 7g sliders in a Polini variator and love it. The SSP-G variator is very close to Polini's, just ours has longer ramps for higher speeds. Yeah I have the 7g sliders in now, and it stays in the proper power band from 0-42mph then the RPMs climb to about 8k and the top speed just kind of flattens out at 42-43mph @8-8200rpm... I also ran the 7gs with the SSP-G variator, but it just didn't work well. I did notice 1 of 3 glide keys that came with it is extremely loose, and the back ramp plate gets caught up on the driveshaft... One or possibly both causing an issue and leaving me -$50 I'm gonna message ya privately.
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Post by jeff84 on Jul 31, 2018 16:01:12 GMT -5
Seriously considering going to harborfreight tmrw and getting a 20ton press. well worth it. I bought a 12 ton press from them, and went and threw my 20 ton bottle jack I had laying around on it. but I used the 12 ton that came with it for my gears and some stubborn wheel bearings. after the wheel bearings I put the 20 ton jack on realizing that I had to use the full force of the 12 ton for those. I only paid 99 for the 12 ton press. it might actually be cheaper to buy the 12 ton press and then the 20 ton bottle jack than it would be to buy the 20 ton press. they are exactly the same other than the jack that comes with them.
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Post by humanshield on Jul 31, 2018 16:11:12 GMT -5
I have the 20 ton press in my garage. Haven't put it together yet. Man, running outta room. The frames are the same? They look different in the store. The 12 ton frame looks about 8 inches shorter. and the feet are smaller.
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Post by jeff84 on Jul 31, 2018 16:18:26 GMT -5
ah, well I could be wrong. about them being exactly the same. I just know that I was able to put a 20 ton bottle jack on mine. the guage of the metal its constructed with is the same though. and the bottle jack I put on mine didn't come from HF, it was an old one that my father had for years barely ever used, couldn't tell you the brand as it had been repainted so no markings on it. a press is for me anyway an invaluable tool even though it rarely gets used. I have let other people use it more than I think I will ever use it for myself. but like I said it is invaluable and I doubt I would ever be willing to part with it
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Post by humanshield on Jul 31, 2018 17:27:29 GMT -5
I know what you mean. We're probably the types that don't like to depend on others when it comes to tools especially. At least I am. Do you do your own welding? A welder was one of the handiest tools I ever bought. Used it more times than I can count. On scooters many times.
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Post by jeff84 on Jul 31, 2018 18:42:41 GMT -5
actually I just ordered one the other day, its due to be delivered Thursday. just a 110 volt Lincoln mig/flux core but its all I really see my self needing. buddy of mine has an old spool gun he said I could have so I can weld aluminum.
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Post by humanshield on Jul 31, 2018 20:53:31 GMT -5
actually I just ordered one the other day, its due to be delivered Thursday. just a 110 volt Lincoln mig/flux core but its all I really see my self needing. buddy of mine has an old spool gun he said I could have so I can weld aluminum. Man, you are gonna be really glad you have that. believe me. it's plenty. With that welder you can do a LOT.
Once you have one there's so many things that seem to come up where it comes in handy.
Congrats!
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Post by humanshield on Aug 1, 2018 10:44:12 GMT -5
Re-installed original gears 14/52 with new belt
7200RPM @ 40mph
That's pretty close to where I want it.
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Post by farmer54 on Aug 1, 2018 14:41:33 GMT -5
Hi Humanshield you said you changed to a new belt by any chance did you save or measure the old one as compared to the new one so we can see the difference? I've wondered if the width difference on different brands vary much even though they are suppose to the same if so once you wear them down a little bit there could be a big speed difference. Thanks frank
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Post by humanshield on Aug 1, 2018 16:25:21 GMT -5
Hi Humanshield you said you changed to a new belt by any chance did you save or measure the old one as compared to the new one so we can see the difference? I've wondered if the width difference on different brands vary much even though they are suppose to the same if so once you wear them down a little bit there could be a big speed difference. Thanks frank Hello frank.
Yes I did.
The belt is a 729 x 17.5 so 17.5mm is the width new.
The belt I removed was at 16.6mm
That 1 mm made about a 1000rpm difference in the top end.
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Post by jeff84 on Aug 3, 2018 5:56:44 GMT -5
actually I just ordered one the other day, its due to be delivered Thursday. just a 110 volt Lincoln mig/flux core but its all I really see my self needing. buddy of mine has an old spool gun he said I could have so I can weld aluminum. Man, you are gonna be really glad you have that. believe me. it's plenty. With that welder you can do a LOT.
Once you have one there's so many things that seem to come up where it comes in handy.
Congrats!
I am a horrible welder. spent an hour trying to lay beads on thin metal. eventually I got them to look ok, I just used almost a 1lb spool though to get the hang of it. I have never really welded since industrial arts in highs school. that was stick welding and I failed that class. to be fair though I failed every class besides physics and biology
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