Starter woes

[GrumpyUnk]

 I installed a 44mm cylinder, piston and rings to a Taotao that had a questionable 47mm BBK previously installed.

 Previously, the starter would crank the engine over enough to get it to start, but was very 'peaky' in that it would crank very slowly on the compression stroke.  I think.
 Anyway, after the 63cc set was installed, it cranked very slowly.  I figured the brushes may be gummy, the bearings/bushings dry, and the starter in general need of a 'cleanup and lube'.
 Wrong.
 Both permanent magnets came out of the housing along with the armature, clinging tightly to the metal of the armature.  Oops.
 I separated all three parts, keeping them in the same relationship out of fear of installing things backwards(no markings on the magnet, so I made one to mark 'this end out'.  No way to know which magnet was attached where as they had rotated upon removal.
 How it ever worked I have no idea.
 I cleaned up the magnets, and the case, mixed some epoxy, and glued them back in place successfully.  I thought.
Re-assembled, and installed.  Bzzzz.  Bzzzz. 
 Rats, the Bendix & planetary fell out of place.  Fiddle fiddle.
 Try again.  Bzzzzzz Bzzzz.
 The armature rotates in the wrong direction.

 What do I do to make it rotate in the correct direction?

  Flipping the Red and Black seemed reasonable, but, the body of the starter is 'ground'.  Connecting the red wire to ground does not seem like a good idea.

 Given that the magnets are epoxied in place, would removal and swapping one for the other do anything?  It does not make sense mentally to just move the N 180 along with moving the S similarly.  They are still right there... of course the armature connects 180 off from the current setting...
 I *think* removing the magnets and moving them might work, but brain not working...

 Any ideas?

tom

[KSR Moto]

Make sure that your battery is connected properly if you were working in hurry and switched the + and - side

Also make sure that your epoxy/lube does not conduct electricity

Use multimeter to make sure that the ground is ground and that one lead that goes to starter is positive

If everything above is okay,open the starter and re check everything, try switching everything(especially magnets) that can be switched, until it starts to turn in the right direction

Dont know what else it could be, hope it helps

[GrumpyUnk]

Immediately after making the post, I went to the workshop and stared for a while.

I had marked the outer case and the aluminum endpiece that held the brush carrier and the armature gear end. The brushes were up and down. I looked inside the case, and realized that I could install the magnet/case upside down to how I took it apart. I maneuvered the brushes into the holder, put the armature in place, using my 3rd, 4th and 5th hands to hold things, held my mouth just right, and got the armature into the end carrier.
I used some vise-grips clamped onto the gear, and stuffed the armature into the case, with the case deliberately swapped from how I took it apart. Installed the screws, installed the starter, fiddled with the planetary /Bendix, and put the CVT cover on. Crossing my fingers... brake & starter button, and it cranked over.
At first it made some REAL clanky noises, but I figured it was the kick starter trying to un-mesh(hoped). Tried a few times, and it finally started. Viola. It wurks.(SGt Schultz accent)
Crazy that I could not get my mind around the fact that rotating the magnet carrier/case 180 would flip the rotation. I was thinking that N/S, what the heck, it is just moving it 180 ... and they are still oriented the same, so how could that work? AND how did it ever work with the magnets clinging to the armature when power was applied? Inquiring minds want to know... too old for this crap I guess.
Now to break in the rings/piston/cylinder of the 44mm kit, along with all else it needs.
tom

[tortoise2]

Jul 23, 2018 15:26:59 GMT -5 GrumpyUnk said:

I maneuvered the brushes into the holder, put the armature in place, using my 3rd, 4th and 5th hands to hold things, held my mouth just right, and got the armature into the end carrier.

One technique.

[humanshield]

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[Moat]

I ran across this N/S, housing 180 degrees off, reverse-spinning thing when I had my starter apart for cleaning/lubing. I believe it's just a matter of the magnets *actually being reversed polarity (different) from one another* - the inner face of one N, the other S. So, indeed the housing (and thus magnetic polarity) can be installed 180 degrees "out" (reversed) in relation to the BRUSHES... which is why it'll spin backwards.

I.e. - the active armature pole is "seeing" a N, when it's supposed to be "seeing" a S - and pushes instead of pulls.

Or something like that...

Great on ya' for the epoxy fix! Most folks would have just tossed it.

Bob