fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 2, 2018 14:02:15 GMT -5
Removed carburettor today, took it apart completely and cleaned it thoroughly using fuel and a toothbrush. Also blew through every orifice i could find. It was just the outside that was a little dirty. Couldn't find any crud whatsoever inside. Reason for this was to find out the size of the jets in it, but also to make sure it wasn't crud that caused the hesitation problem. Seems not. These were the jets: Main jet: 78 Pilot jet: 30 ? jet: 35 The last one looks like a small thin cylinder, had no screw head or anything to fit a tool on it so i left it untouched but blew through it. It is next to the other jets and it says 35 on it. What does it do? While at it, i added a fuel filter. On removal of carb, i also noticed that the vacuum petcock (correct terminology?) seems broken and fuel never stops flowing through it. Had to fold the line to avoid fuel spilling everywhere. Think i'm going to replace it with a manual one in the future. Went on a 30 min testrun after this, but no difference, hesitation still there. Think i'm going to order the following jets now Main 80, 85, 90, 95 Pilot 35, 40, 45 but i have really no idea how sensitive it is, how big of a jump one should do.
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Post by scooterpimp on Sept 2, 2018 14:40:40 GMT -5
Sometimes cleaner &air isnt enough to clean tiny passages in jets , i had to use thin wire from bread twist ties to clear jets ..on many occasions. .sometimes these carbs just become assholes (imo) and ill replace troublesome ones... had carbs stripoed & cleaned etc. With no help in the past too.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 2, 2018 15:23:47 GMT -5
scooterpimp: Yep but i could look through them in every way, with a light source behind. Maybe i'll poke with something next time i open it up. Btw, ordered some jets now a "Naraku M4 80-98" kit. Dude at store said that problem is probably the idle jet that is clogged, but i dunno. It looked fine.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 2, 2018 15:25:39 GMT -5
Wtf, look at this! His diaphragm got those waves too! Should it really be like that? Did i flip mine the wrong way after all? Can't believe it should look like that. youtu.be/6EYTQsi1YJc?t=315
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Post by diynuke on Sept 3, 2018 6:08:27 GMT -5
Okay ive read it all through a bit and I didn't see anyone talking about the acceleration pump on the carb.
The acceleration pump on your carb. just bend the little steel strip a bit and see which way it gets worse or improve's. that's the way I solved it. (or that little pump isn't working that's also possible.). that vacuum valve. well it should work but if it lets through gas I wouldn't really care about it. its just a backup for the float valve in the carb.
This pumps squirts a bit of gas in the venture when you hit your gas. so this solve's the problem of the slide not reacting fast enough which results in a bog down. it may be possible the pump isn't adjusted right. so it may squirt the gas in too late or too early or not enough.
The pump I am referring to is the pump in the fuel bowl. which is activated by a lever which Is activated by the throttle which has an small excentric cam on it which pushes the lever.
normally I would add a picture but for some reason internet isnt fast enough... (on school)
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Post by diynuke on Sept 3, 2018 6:24:13 GMT -5
Wtf, look at this! His diaphragm got those waves too! Should it really be like that? Did i flip mine the wrong way after all? Can't believe it should look like that. youtu.be/6EYTQsi1YJc?t=315for mounting it you can't really go wrong. if you install it you will have those waves on both way's
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Sept 3, 2018 7:42:04 GMT -5
The fact that it idles fine, would seem to dispute the “clogged idle jet”( polit jet). I think your jet kit will be your answer. While the best indication of mixture is reading the plug, the other way to go about it is the go to “too rich” first. When the bike is too rich, it will most likely run fine until you get to a certain RPM, then it will flatten out. Let’s say now you can get 8500 rpms ar wot, a too big jet might only let you get 8200 rpms. So you go down one jet at a time until you get your 8500 back.
I would suggest you go up to the “85” to start. Along with a 32 polit jet.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 3, 2018 13:21:30 GMT -5
First of all, thankyou guys for sharing your scooter knowledge! Okay ive read it all through a bit and I didn't see anyone talking about the acceleration pump on the carb. I hear you but can't seem to identify that acceleration pump in my carb. This is the exact carb i'm working with: www.manualslib.com/manual/976572/Peugeot-Kisbee.html?page=64#manualWtf, look at this! His diaphragm got those waves too! Should it really be like that? Did i flip mine the wrong way after all? Can't believe it should look like that. youtu.be/6EYTQsi1YJc?t=315for mounting it you can't really go wrong. if you install it you will have those waves on both way's I have watched several YouTube-videos on that, and some have the waves, some not. In my case, you could really tell it was upside down because of how the little rubber aligning thing pointed straight up if in "bowl" conf, please read on. To remedy that (so that it points to the side as it should) you have to pull down on diaphragm into a "mushroom"-like shape as opposed to the "bowl" shape when looking at diaphragm + throttle (underneath) from the side. Refer to my first post on this, pic2 and pic3, for the mushroom and bowl shapes. Unfortunately i didn't take pic when in bowl shape in upside-down conf, with rubber thing pointing up. If installed in a "mushroom" shape, then when you press the throttle down, you force it into the "bowl" shape, and those waves appear. After i completely removed diaphragm, flipped it upside-down and reinstalled it, i didn't have to be forced it into a "bowl" shape, it was already, and voila, waves GONE! Looking at diaphragm closely, especially around the outer edge, you can easily tell that it matters which way you flip it when installing onto the throttle itself. ratdog: I'll try the 85 first but i could not get my hands on any pilot jets so far. There is also a third jet-like thing, size 35, that cannot be removed, as explained before. Here is manual page on that, middle picture. It is to the left of main+pilot, and looks like a small cylinder. www.manualslib.com/manual/976572/Peugeot-Kisbee.html?page=61#manualWaiting on jets to be delivered...
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 3, 2018 13:33:40 GMT -5
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Sept 3, 2018 14:22:44 GMT -5
Well the good news is that the jets we are concerned with are clearly showen. Wen you remove the main jet, hold the jet holder tube so you just unscrew the jet. I’m going to bet you won’t have an open end wrench that small, so the job will fall to a small crescent wrench.
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Post by diynuke on Sept 4, 2018 11:25:40 GMT -5
First of all, thankyou guys for sharing your scooter knowledge! Okay ive read it all through a bit and I didn't see anyone talking about the acceleration pump on the carb. I hear you but can't seem to identify that acceleration pump in my carb. This is the exact carb i'm working with: www.manualslib.com/manual/976572/Peugeot-Kisbee.html?page=64#manualfor mounting it you can't really go wrong. if you install it you will have those waves on both way's I have watched several YouTube-videos on that, and some have the waves, some not. In my case, you could really tell it was upside down because of how the little rubber aligning thing pointed straight up if in "bowl" conf, please read on. To remedy that (so that it points to the side as it should) you have to pull down on diaphragm into a "mushroom"-like shape as opposed to the "bowl" shape when looking at diaphragm + throttle (underneath) from the side. Refer to my first post on this, pic2 and pic3, for the mushroom and bowl shapes. Unfortunately i didn't take pic when in bowl shape in upside-down conf, with rubber thing pointing up. If installed in a "mushroom" shape, then when you press the throttle down, you force it into the "bowl" shape, and those waves appear. After i completely removed diaphragm, flipped it upside-down and reinstalled it, i didn't have to be forced it into a "bowl" shape, it was already, and voila, waves GONE! Looking at diaphragm closely, especially around the outer edge, you can easily tell that it matters which way you flip it when installing onto the throttle itself. ratdog : I'll try the 85 first but i could not get my hands on any pilot jets so far. There is also a third jet-like thing, size 35, that cannot be removed, as explained before. Here is manual page on that, middle picture. It is to the left of main+pilot, and looks like a small cylinder. www.manualslib.com/manual/976572/Peugeot-Kisbee.html?page=61#manualWaiting on jets to be delivered... I would go for an carb with an acceleration pump. you kind of cant get rid of the hickup without the pump if you want it running normally at idle. mixture just leans out too fast. these carbs arent expensive at all so i would take the guess
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 5, 2018 15:27:56 GMT -5
Arrived today: Its a kit from Naraku with M4 main jets that supposedly fits my carb. Almost impossible to see size on them but i managed eventually and wrote them down on tape. Paid 185 NOK ~ 22 USD for them + 99 NOK in shipping. :S Expensive stuff! I'm a swede living in Norway btw. Everything is very expensive in Norway compared to Sweden (and it is not cheap in Sweden either) but pay is great here in Norway so... makes up for it. Might install one of the jets tomorrow if i have time for it. 84, 86 or 88... hmmm 78 fitted now. ratdog : I have open end wrenches from 6mm to 24mm, so no worries! The smallest was 6 or 7mm in carb. EDIT: Think i have even smaller for my R/C car. Forgot about those. diynuke : If changing jets won't fix issue, then maybe i'll buy new carb. In hindsight, should have bought a new 2018 model instead with fuel injection. Saved some 8-900 USD eq. buying this 2016 carburated model with 2400km on odometer tho.
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Sept 5, 2018 18:28:50 GMT -5
I love the hindsite! Looking for another bike ( like I need another) but I set my goal at 1000 cc with EFI (G). So I’d go richer rather then leaner. I suggested the 85, so go with the 86. Put a fresh plug in it and go do some riding where you can run WOT as much as possible and avoid idleing as much as possible to see where your mixture is. If you can, run it toward home at WOT, then keeping the throttle open turn off the juice and cost to a stop.. the only part of the plug you are looking at is the “white part”
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Sept 6, 2018 15:48:39 GMT -5
Ok, so now i have installed the 86 main jet but didn't have time to replace spark plug. Kept everything else the same as before, initially. Here is pic of carb, just before change of jet. Went on a test run (throttle clip still downmost setting), but i think it got too much fuel. Could definitely feel a loss of power. Also still hesitated but a (very) small improvement on that though. Then i moved clip to topmost position instead to give it less fuel. It worked pretty good, still a liiittle hesitation though but best setup so far. Power almost on par with the 78 main jet, maybe a little less. It doesn't accelerate quite as good as before, but maxes out at 50 km/h like before, when rev limiter kicks in so i don't know how much top-end/revs i lost on jet change, because of limiter. Now i'm thinking i should replace spark plug and increase gap again from 0.6mm to 0.8mm and see what happens. Gonna take ratdog advice of not idling too much first, and check color of plug. I suspect i'll eventually go down to 84 or 82 for the main jet if plug looks dark and change didn't help. Also need to get my hands on larger pilot jet, a 32 or 34 maybe. With that, its not much more i can do except maybe adjust the valves and/or replace carb with some premium brand. MC-workshop said i would probably not need to adjust valves until it ran an additional 2500km+. To be continued...
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Post by diynuke on Sept 10, 2018 4:24:48 GMT -5
I would suggest buying a cheap knockoff carb to test it with. And my guess with the jet would be 84. but with the rev limiter its hard to check for the spark plug color since it will make the engine run extremely rich when it hits the limiter so I would suggest getting a unlimited cdi for testing. (yeah it all could get a bit expensive.
And for the injection. well I am happy you didn't buy it. because you kind of can't modify the stock EFI without some expensive tools. and the adjustment of the valve's and spark gap wouldn't really affect that dip that much I think. it runs good or not. so if it runs crap cruising then well it says enough. and I would keep the pilot jet stock. you can adjust that one with the air fuel mixture screw.
And ive bought an carb for 17eur on wish which still works great.
(But my prediction is that you will never get rid of the bog issue with this carb. 50cc is much calmer so you don't notice it so badly as with the 72cc. and I guess they left it out to safe on some fuel.)
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