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Post by tocoo on Nov 8, 2018 10:28:01 GMT -5
I do not know if it is the weather or my CDI, but since my unrestricted CDi [sold by the official dealer] has died, I had very poor top RPM. THe scooter spends lots of time around 50km/h at 7400 RPM and it struggles to reach 7700 RPM.
SO I ordered a unrestricted CDI, where the advance is not adjustable and the poor top speeds were still here. I had to change the main jet from 83 to 88 [but 85 will be tried too] and the needle has been raised [lowest position for the clip] Before the raise of the needle, the scooter did not hesitate at acceleration, whereas it did with my Dead CDI, which I attributed to the change of length of the spring in the pulley. Once I raised the needle, the hesitation came back. But the top speed are good again.
So you can look at the height of the needle.
Perhaps I can lower the idle jet to reduce the hesitation, but I am already at 2--2,5 turns with the mixture screw and I fear the cold start and idle would worsen. I will try it tomorrow though, just to see.
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Post by tocoo on Nov 8, 2018 11:05:46 GMT -5
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Post by tocoo on Nov 9, 2018 0:23:11 GMT -5
these are my measurements
thickness of clip = 0,3mm length between 2 grooves = 0,56mm diameter of needle = 2,89mm
so only a washer with 3mm diameter can work and of course those are 0,5mm in thickness which is nearly the length between 2 grooves. It makes it useless to use additional washer.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Apr 1, 2019 15:04:30 GMT -5
I could not even start the scooter with the original CDI. I do not understand why I struggle so much, while you claim you have zero problem cold starting on battery. I'm not 100% sure that i don't have a problem cold-starting. My scoot is parked in a 15-20 degrees garage so it is not cold in there. I don't use it to go to work. Usually i just take it for a spin few times a week, to shop stuff and whatnot. Maybe i leave it 2 hours tops outside in the cold, but it starts very easily if i open throttle a just a little while cranking starter. If i don't touch throttle, it is harder to start it. Then i have to crank it two-three times. You could try using the kick-start once or twice, with ignition off, before you try starter motor and see if that helps. Btw, tocoo, did you check your battery? I noticed that scooter won't start without battery and i just had some troubles because i didn't charge it often enough. If voltage go below 12.4 when disconnected, then battery starts breaking down internally (sulfating), which is often irreversible. It is important to charge it regularly and never let it drop below 12.4V. Maybe you get a severe voltage drop when using starter because of semi-faulty battery with too high internal resistance, so electronics won't get enough voltage = hard to start? Just a thought! Spring has finally arrived here. Ice and snow melting away so can use my scooter again.
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Post by tocoo on Apr 2, 2019 3:58:40 GMT -5
Yes I think I remember that the kisbee does not start without battery.
TOday I no longer have start-up issues. I put back the original coil, original carburetor, I gaped my spark plus to 0,8mm and I use main jet = 85, idle jet=33 and needle clip = middle
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on May 2, 2019 14:28:10 GMT -5
Yes I think I remember that the kisbee does not start without battery. TOday I no longer have start-up issues. I put back the original coil, original carburetor, I gaped my spark plus to 0,8mm and I use main jet = 85, idle jet=33 and needle clip = middle That is great man! I've been able to almost remedy my hesitation issue by putting needle clip in downmost position on that Keihin carb i replaced original with. Ordered new exhaust, Tecnigas Silent Pro for 4T, today. Gonna see if it makes any difference in terms of power. It is supposedly less restrictive than the original but looks almost stock. Also think i'm going to do something about the PAIR system. Ordered 'exhaust air filter' from another scooter model and gonna let it flow through that and then into open air, instead of plugging fat hose into airbox. Provided air filter also acts as a silencer. Otherwise, plug PAIR system. Carb won't heat up as fast, but on the other hand, it won't need to breathe exhaust gases either. Probably need to change jets again though.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on May 4, 2019 10:37:00 GMT -5
HESITATION PROBLEM FOUND FOR REAL! I finally got around to try derestrict CDI-box (only temporarily) by hooking up blue wire going into CDI-box, to battery. And voila, hesitation from standstill problem GONE! Scooter top speed increased to 65-70 km/h with this too. And that is without any top speed carb jet tweaking. Must be some 'bug' with that pulse signal when i'm in standstill causing it. I'm going to figure out a more permanent solution to this, without breaking the law. So i have removed it again. My cable didn't require any modifications whatsoever to scooter, except disconnecting blue wire to CDI while testing it. EDIT: I would not recommend this as a long term solution. +12V to CDI on blue wire is probably way too high voltage in the long run. Might fry CDI if unlucky. Plus that it should be switched off completely when turning off ignition. I think 1(one) volt or even less would be enough to blue wire. The CDI pulse from engine is very weak in terms of voltage. The current is also very low because of high impedance on input to CDI. Wish i had an oscilloscope to measure pulse properly and go from there when designing a workaround.And by the way, i recently also found out the presumed correct position of the slide hole by taking pic of Keihin carb, the first time i removed the slide lid. It should be facing the intake/cylinder it seems. Makes sense. So here is a summary of everything i did so far: * Replaced stock carb with larger Keihin - re-jetted it * Replaced intake with larger one to fit Keihin * De-restricted airbox and made air intake area easily adjustable (AWESOME MOD) * Drilled petrol vacuum petcock and put in a manual petcock I think none of the above really mattered, except the Keihin gave some more power (arguably) and reduced the hesitation a little. The problem all along seems to be the stupid CDI restriction!
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Post by tocoo on May 8, 2019 9:00:59 GMT -5
I will clean the carb for summer soon, perhaps friday. i did not pay attention to the slide hole in your picture. i will try it to see if it is more powerful.
if you want to buy a generic AC CDi for the kisbee, you can buy pretty much any AC cdi, but there are ''special'' AC CDI for the kisbee, but the price is 50 euros, supposedly they give better performance than the generic unbridled CDI.... I am selling my generic AC CDI and also the Naraku AC CDI with timing adjustable by screw. 25euros each. they are both new. let me know if you want one of them.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on May 11, 2019 12:00:26 GMT -5
I will clean the carb for summer soon, perhaps friday. i did not pay attention to the slide hole in your picture. i will try it to see if it is more powerful. if you want to buy a generic AC CDi for the kisbee, you can buy pretty much any AC cdi, but there are ''special'' AC CDI for the kisbee, but the price is 50 euros, supposedly they give better performance than the generic unbridled CDI.... I am selling my generic AC CDI and also the Naraku AC CDI with timing adjustable by screw. 25euros each. they are both new. let me know if you want one of them. How did carb clean go? I think i'll stick with original CDI for now. I have an idea about the pulse signal... but that is perhaps for another thread. Just changed to that aftermarket Tecnigas Silent Pro exhaust. It was a terrible fit. I had to saw off a little bit of the corner of the upper mounting plate for it not to press hard against the fan cover. On the lower mount, the distance thing (aluminium cylinder-like object), was 8-10mm too long, so had to saw that off too. Also, because the cylinder mounting bracket didn't have holes but cutouts (see link) you had to tighten it snug at cylinder before even attempting to fasten it at the back, otherwise it would slide down by the cylinder making it impossible to not have a leak there. They did not provide a new gasket either. After all that i was curious about the performance of the new exhaust... but it was a letdown. Hardly any noticable difference. Maybe at top speed, but could not test that. Sound level is pretty close to the original exhaust, perhaps just a little louder. Could be a slight leak at cylinder gasket though. The only real plus is that i think it looks much better than the original exhaust. It has a little more of a an 'up' angle to it. On the bad side again, i notice a few small 'bangs' out of exhaust sometimes when decellerating. Dunno whats going on with that, didn't change anything but exhaust. Never heard those bangs before. A well... at least the original exhaust won't get rusty now, it being stowed away indoors. I would not recommend buying the Tecnigas Silent Pro unless there is something seriously wrong with the original one. But as a replacement, if willing to do some small mods, it works. A new original one costs a small fortune, ~300 USD converted from NOK, but this one ~100-120 USD. EDIT: This last part will be posted in another thread, if i decide to do it. UP NEXT: Try disconnecting the PAIR system from intake airbox, plug the hole, and connect hose to a filter (bought a cheap one from another scooter that has that setup) and lead the exhaust gases out back of scooter. Tested filter, it actuall works as a silencer too - which is good. I figured, if just plugging the hose coming from engine (or remove the reed valve and plug it properly), all exhaust gases must instead go through the normal exhaust. So by plugging, you would increase the exhaust resistance a bit. I don't want that! Instead i want low exhaust resistance and nothing but clean air and fuel going into carb. So after doing this mod, i will try larger main jet again (there should be more oxygen available in airbox after removing exhaust fumes from there) to squeeze out the last bit if power of the engine without going for larger displacement.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on May 19, 2019 6:44:04 GMT -5
This is my final post in this thread, as the problem is solved now. The main cause of the hesitation issue with full throttle from standstill on Peugeot Kisbee -16 was: * CDI pulse signal coming from engine makes engine stutter I also had some minor issues with carb tuning that played a small role.
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Post by tocoo on Jun 9, 2019 8:22:05 GMT -5
Btw, tocoo , did you check your battery? I noticed that scooter won't start without battery and i just had some troubles because i didn't charge it often enough. If voltage go below 12.4 when disconnected, then battery starts breaking down internally (sulfating), which is often irreversible. It is important to charge it regularly and never let it drop below 12.4V. Maybe you get a severe voltage drop when using starter because of semi-faulty battery with too high internal resistance, so electronics won't get enough voltage = hard to start? Just a thought! Spring has finally arrived here. Ice and snow melting away so can use my scooter again. hello, since you do not have a windshield, can you tell me if your acceleration is fast like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md-yCtGx5xg (at the end of video). The guy says he bought the unrestricted cdi. He goes from 30 to 70 km/h in 4s i think, without any pause. With my windshiled, I am far from those number. i go from 0 to 30 miles.h in 13s with the windshield. Could you time your acceleration up to 30 miles/h ?
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Post by tocoo on Jun 9, 2019 8:40:10 GMT -5
i have a read a a bit on the video and somebody says that some kisbee 50cc 4 stroke have the speedometer for the kisbee 100cc 4 stroke, which has hweels of 10 inches, instead of 12 inches for the 50cc. so they say the difference on the speedometer is 15km/h. They say that it is noticeable when you push the scooter while walking, the needle of the speedometer goes up to 15km/h
for better performance, for any kind of ksibee, they say to buy the clutch of the kisbee 50cc 2-stroke, because this one has no restriction on the clutch (no blue wire coming from the CVT) so you can keep the original CDI of the 4 stroke and it is un-restricted automatically. [they say this way the blue wire of the cdi has 0v all the time and so the cdi is unrestricted, isntead of getting the blue wire +12v all the time]
they advise to change the variator, because the disk of the original variator is too flat near the border. they advise for -variator Multivar by Malossi -belt 248.062 polini for kymco/sym -increase the size of jets -5,5g or 6g for the rollers -no mention for the springs of the clutch, so i guess the original springs ??
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