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Post by tocoo on Oct 4, 2018 6:27:42 GMT -5
Pilot jets China -> Norway took 15 days. Short-lived happiness tho - i ordered the wrong f**** jets. They're M6 "Keihin", too big thread, and wouldn't fit in my original carb. Beeing an idiot, i forgot to always measure twice. BUT, they will probably fit in the new 20mm carb i ordered that should arrive soon. hello, I think I have the idle jets you want. I have size 30,31,33,35,38,40 and the width of the jet is 5mm. thread size = 5mmx0.8mm, length of jet = 28mm. I also sell a pd18j carburetor with some idle jets and main jets for it [main = 75, 78, 80, 82, 85, 88, idle = 30,31,33,35,38,40 and thread size=6mmx0.75mm]. let me know if you are interested.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 4, 2018 14:55:27 GMT -5
tocoo: Thanks, good to know, but i think i'll wait on the new carb i ordered. If that one won't work properly for some reason, i might be interested.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 6, 2018 14:46:37 GMT -5
Received air filter from China yesterday so been at it again today, experimenting. Found these tiny fuel filters at Biltema, ~3-4 USD eqv. for the lot. The filter itself is some kind of metal. Also bought fuel cock at Clas Ohlson! www.clasohlson.com/no/view/COProductController/quickView?productCode=51-1797www.clasohlson.com/no/view/COProductController/quickView?productCode=51-1798Here it is when mounted, with new clear fuel hose too. It was wise to do it outside because the vacuum petcock was confirmed broken. It just sprays out of it even if engine is off and vacuum hose disconnected. This made it very easy to change jets! * Turn off fuel * Drain carb via drain screw and small hose at bottom of carb, into some container * Detach air filter hose from carb * Detach carb from engine side * Flip carb upside-down, open "lid", change jets, flip it back So now i don't even have to remove throttle wire, fuel hose or any other connector to do it! And there is no fuel spill whatsoever. Now to the experiment - getting rid of original airbox: Also bought super-cheap (3-4 USD eq) red crankcase filter at Biltema but used it as inlet filter for the PAIR system, see pic. Had to wrap hose in some rubber sheet i had laying around, to make it fit snug. Next i used new clear hose and put one of the small fuel filters at the end of it, and an additional inch of hose pointing downwards at the very end. Filter not visible in pic, but you can see hose from bottom right in pic. Instead of feeding carb with crankcase vapor, i let it vent via hose and filter to open air, at top rear of bike. The new hi flow air filter was also fitted. So i got an idiot-award again, LOL! Engine became VERY loud. I'm sure the new hi flow air filter did its thing, but i suspect there was lots of noise from the red filter too. I know it is feeding fresh air into the exhaust somehow, before the catalytic converter, to help emissions. Went for a testrun and it of course ran bad and lean. So i bumped main jet in steps of 2 (clip in middle) up to as large as 90! Could not get it to run good no matter what. It is surely the original 30 pilot jet problem again, haunting me. Because of that and the very loud engine, i put back the original airbox and removed the red filter and connected PAIR hose to airbox again. Kept the crankcase vapor mod, but plugged its original fitting in airbox to avoid dirt from getting into "clean side". While at it, put in 84 main jet and clip in middle (instead of good 82 with clip downmost i had before) and it worked pretty good. So it was a good day after all. The experiment didn't work as expected but at least i got a fuel cock mounted. Now i just wait on that new 20mm Keihin clone carb... come on China, shippelido-shipelida!
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Post by tocoo on Oct 7, 2018 2:39:01 GMT -5
can you tell me what brand and model is your 50cc scooter?
Can you tell me the internal diameter of the fuel line? I struggle to find one
where id you get your fuel tap?
also, your fuel line goes upwards on the left of the scooter, , so make it shorter so that fuel flows downwards easily
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 10, 2018 13:44:33 GMT -5
tocoo It is a Peugeot Kisbee '16 with the 139 QMB-E engine. 2018 model comes with fuel injection. A small scooter popular among girls here in Norway, but, strangely, the handlebar is mounted quite high so a tall person like me (1.88m) can use it without it hitting the knees when turning. Thats why i bought it. This is the fuel line: www.motorleaks.no/products/2913-drivstoffslange-gjennomsiktig-racing-5x9mm-1m.aspx5mm internal, 9mm external it seems. Seems to be good quality and is not too stiff. Not sure what you mean by "fuel tap" but if you mean fuel cock (that can be manually turned off) i bought it at www.clasohlson.com with article number 51-1797 and 51-1798. The fuel line is a bit long, yes, but from that camera angle, you can't really see that it is not as bad as it looks. Carb is mounted much lower than fuel tank. Its a good flow of fuel in it, no worries.
EDIT: It is a bit tricky to shorten it more, because when saddle is put on top, i needs to go around the cavity for the helmet.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 10, 2018 14:05:29 GMT -5
Received the 22mm intake manifold today. Measured it, and it is 22mm for real. Not too good finish though. Very rough in some spots and some gold-ish, semi-transparent paint in it too. Needs a touchup before installation. From memory, seems shorter than the original 18.5mm. I hope it fits! Still waiting on carb and gaskets...
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 12, 2018 16:09:33 GMT -5
You guys! Guess what arrived today! A Keihin (clone i guess, because ordered from China) 20mm carb! Measured it and it is a true 20mm and not a fake where they machined the opening just a bit. Butterfly is 20mm. It came with a small fuel filter too, and seems to have an accelerator pump. Since i ordered manifold gaskets from same company, they also arrived today. Could not resist opening it and check the jets. It shipped with 28 pilot jet and 82 main jet. Test-fitted the pilot jets that wouldn't fit in my original carb, and, they fit perfectly in this one! And there is more, the main jets in kit i have fits too! So now i can really tweak this bad-boy if needed. This friday evening i spent preparing the new intake manifold and gasket. Manifold 22mm, was shipped with very bad finish, so made it as smooth as i could with the tools i had at hand. I could not find any 20mm manifolds on aliexpress.com, therefore bought this one. As shown earlier, cylinder head intake diameter is 18mm on my scooter. The new gaskets were 16mm. So to avoid getting abrupt edges carb -> intake manifold -> gasket -> cylinder head i enlarged the hole in the gasket to 18mm on the o-ring side, and to 22mm on the manifold side creating a small funnel-like shape. Tried to take a shortcut using a christmas-tree drill but ended up cracking two gaskets before i finally decided to use a round-file and _very carefully_ precision grind it larger by hand. Took like 30 minutes to do. Finished off with some super-fine sandpaper. Tomorrow i'm gonna mount the new stuff and hopefully get a slightly more powerful, hesitation-free Peugeot Kisbee! Almost forgot. Talked to scooter mechanic yesterday. He said that the thick hose coming from PAIR system on engine and going to airbox on the Kisbee is an _exhaust_ outlet were 20-25% of the exhaust gases are re-introduced into the carb via airbox, to be mixed with fuel and ignited again. There are two purposes for this. 1. Reduce emissions (and make engine run a little worse) 2. To heat up the carburettor to prevent icing in it He also thought that it could be a good idea to get rid of it to improve engine performance. If so, best is to remove all parts of it and make a cover-plate where the chromed pipe is attached on cylinder head. Might do that later.
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Post by tocoo on Oct 12, 2018 23:19:14 GMT -5
Ho so you have a kisbee. I have a kisbee too, from 2014 at 5500km now. I wondered if the newest 2018 kisbee was interesting, but since it is controlled electronically, I preferred to keep mine. this is how mine is: I keep the original carburetor with its famous 20mm diaphragm... I pierced the vacuum petcock to make it manual and I installed two manual valves. I also replaced the fuel enricher on the carb, because the original enricher was closing the enriching circuit when the enricher was COLD [the needle was too long]. So the cold starts were impossible. Now it starts fine cold on battery, cold on kick and it idles at 2100 RPM. Can you tell me how much gap do you have on your spark plug? the peugeot manual says 0,6--0,7mm but I gap my spark plug at 0,55mm and it works fine. i also set the valves around 0,8mm. Can you also tell if the little ''green clips '' are used for the two screws holding the seat ? I lost those two clips. DO you know where to buy those green plastic clips ?
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Post by gsx600racer on Oct 12, 2018 23:29:43 GMT -5
Received air filter from China yesterday so been at it again today, experimenting. Found these tiny fuel filters at Biltema, ~3-4 USD eqv. for the lot. The filter itself is some kind of metal. Also bought fuel cock at Clas Ohlson! www.clasohlson.com/no/view/COProductController/quickView?productCode=51-1797www.clasohlson.com/no/view/COProductController/quickView?productCode=51-1798Here it is when mounted, with new clear fuel hose too. It was wise to do it outside because the vacuum petcock was confirmed broken. It just sprays out of it even if engine is off and vacuum hose disconnected. This made it very easy to change jets! * Turn off fuel * Drain carb via drain screw and small hose at bottom of carb, into some container * Detach air filter hose from carb * Detach carb from engine side * Flip carb upside-down, open "lid", change jets, flip it back So now i don't even have to remove throttle wire, fuel hose or any other connector to do it! And there is no fuel spill whatsoever. Now to the experiment - getting rid of original airbox: Also bought super-cheap (3-4 USD eq) red crankcase filter at Biltema but used it as inlet filter for the PAIR system, see pic. Had to wrap hose in some rubber sheet i had laying around, to make it fit snug. Next i used new clear hose and put one of the small fuel filters at the end of it, and an additional inch of hose pointing downwards at the very end. Filter not visible in pic, but you can see hose from bottom right in pic. Instead of feeding carb with crankcase vapor, i let it vent via hose and filter to open air, at top rear of bike. The new hi flow air filter was also fitted. So i got an idiot-award again, LOL! Engine became VERY loud. I'm sure the new hi flow air filter did its thing, but i suspect there was lots of noise from the red filter too. I know it is feeding fresh air into the exhaust somehow, before the catalytic converter, to help emissions. Went for a testrun and it of course ran bad and lean. So i bumped main jet in steps of 2 (clip in middle) up to as large as 90! Could not get it to run good no matter what. It is surely the original 30 pilot jet problem again, haunting me. Because of that and the very loud engine, i put back the original airbox and removed the red filter and connected PAIR hose to airbox again. Kept the crankcase vapor mod, but plugged its original fitting in airbox to avoid dirt from getting into "clean side". While at it, put in 84 main jet and clip in middle (instead of good 82 with clip downmost i had before) and it worked pretty good. So it was a good day after all. The experiment didn't work as expected but at least i got a fuel cock mounted. Now i just wait on that new 20mm Keihin clone carb... come on China, shippelido-shipelida! A little late to this party, but I would of put the fuel filter before the shutoff vs after. This way you are protecting the shutoff from dirt/contamination too.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 13, 2018 16:19:15 GMT -5
tocoo : Nice setup with dual shutoff! Also thanks for info about the enricher. Wonder how many Kisbee that have that problem... I personally deeply regret not buying the 2018 fuel injected Kisbee instead. I run 0.7mm spark plug gap. Been reading the range 0.6-0.8mm, taking into account both owners manual and workshop manual. Figured i put it at 0.7 and forget about it. The larger gap the better for igniting the air/fuel mixture properly (they say), but coil can't handle too large of a gap. Here is a pic answering your question about clips: I dunno where to get them, but try your local Peugeot scooter dealer first.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 13, 2018 16:26:54 GMT -5
gsx600racer: Yep, good point. I thought about that when i mounted it. This way not protecting shutoff, makes it easier to replace fuel filter. I'm not ever refueling from jerrycans, only using pump at gas station, so hopefully tank will stay somewhat clean. Tocoo's dual shutoff setup looks nice btw.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 13, 2018 17:03:43 GMT -5
I've been at it for 12 hours today, with only a 30 min break. And it still ****** hesitates!!! 1. Began by noticing that my crankcase vapor ventilation mod didn't work very well. Some white thick stuff in the hose... couldn't get it out. Think it could be the low quality hose (not the same quality hose as i use for fuel) itself that is starting to dissolve. Therefore, removed mod and connected it with original hose to airbox again. 2. Goal of the day: Make it run good, not hesitate, with un-restricted airbox. So i replaced intake manifold and carb. Also made new vacuum line from fuel hose, because old one too short to reach opposite side of manifold. 3. Testrun. Barely ran. Way too small jets 28 and 82 for unrestricted airbox. 4. Replaced both jets in the Keihin going up in small steps... (this took several hours with many testruns) and could get it to work somewhat with 38 pilot jet and 94 main jet... even tried 40 pilot and 98 main jet. No matter what combo i tried though, it always hesitated from standstill. Most jet combos also made it run like crap at middle- or top-end. 5. Tried plugging the exhaust recirculation inlet in airbox out of desperation, because i noticed that if i remove the thick hose from airbox while engine is running, ALOT of exhaust gases comes out of the hose, along with loud exhaust noise. With the above mod, the hose would still fit over the bolt head and it would look completely original. 6. New testrun with clean air in airbox. Scooter ran worse. Tried a few more different jet sizes up/down from 38 and 94. It just made it worse. 38 94 was still the best but far from good. 7. Ok, screw the un-restricted airbox i thought. Therefore i de-unrestricted it again and installed 32 pilot and 84 main jet = close to what i have been using with the original carb with good results except from-standstill-hesitation. Took it for a testrun... ran better than any of the unrestricted setups, but still not good. Low on power. Hesitations here and there. 8. Removed the bolt in the airbox to enable exhaust recirculation again, still running restricted airbox, with 32 and 84 jets. Result = back at square 1. It runs _exactly_ as with the original carb using 30 and 84 jets, with the exact same small hesitation from standstill. What the F should i do now? I've spent so much time on this crap and nothing helps. Keihin with accelerator pump... BAH! It must be something else. Valve clearances, head gasket, engine sucking air via broken vacuum petcock or something. Any ideas? Feel like selling it and buying a new one with fuel injection.
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Post by tocoo on Oct 14, 2018 9:13:10 GMT -5
My kisbee hesitates during an acceleration from idling because i changed the original pulley in the CVT cover. original spring of the pulley = color green = height of 102mmmm new spring of pulley = 95mm or 90mm? so you can check -the rollers [original rollers = 5g/roller] -the color of the spring -if you have a 39mm socket[some kisbee have 38mm nut though]+impact driver, you can measure the spring and clean the whole pulley also, check the transmission size of original transmission of kisbee cvt belt = 723 17.5 28 tutorial = www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EjW-iSP-Q8With original carburetor I have -idle jet = 31 or 33 -main jet = 80 original idle = 30 original main = 76 needle clip = one of the 2 middle positions original needle clip = one of the 2 middle positions
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Post by tocoo on Oct 14, 2018 9:23:12 GMT -5
for instance I go from 0mph to 38mph [little yellow dot before 50km/h] in 14 seconds when I use the windshield instead [it takes 2s to get the scooter moving with the new pulley] so i would put back the original carburetor, just use main jet =80, idle jet = 33 or 31, change the original enricher with the enricher of the new carburetor (if they fit and the new enricher has not a long needle [remove the enriching circuit on thee orginal carb with the 2 screws and plug the enricher to see if the needle short enough]), be sure to have a clean the carburetor optional = clean the valve cover+ filter for polluted gas from the valve cover [the chrome tube connects to a lozange with 2 screw, the filter is inside] and also set he valves at 0,10mm like the manual says if you set the valves, be careful with setting the engine at TDC because it is hard to see if you are at compression stroke like I experienced here 49ccscoot.proboards.com/post/333986
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Post by tocoo on Oct 14, 2018 10:05:16 GMT -5
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