fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 20, 2018 11:33:29 GMT -5
Nah it didn't do much. Maybe a little better but that is probably just placebo.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 20, 2018 15:16:02 GMT -5
Found this awesome scoot carb tuning video! www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCGjVRyN6YUIt suggests that my pilot jet is still wrong, and that it does not care much about resistance in airbox as opposed to the main jet. Maybe i should try a few different sizes of pilot jets again. Never tried 28-30 pilot (on Keihin) while at the same time running a bit larger main jet, 84+. 32 and 84 in it now. Winter is coming though... so might just leave it as it is until spring. Winter tune should be a bit richer in terms of jet sizes because cold air holds more oxygen than warm air.
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Post by tocoo on Oct 21, 2018 0:57:03 GMT -5
yeah it is the best video for carb tuning.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 21, 2018 14:25:27 GMT -5
A little off-topic, but super interesting: When is Rotax E-TEC www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC6GHMTWJrgin combo with this new smart piston-design www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEaE6BHyjzgcoming to 50cc scooters? Looks like that new piston design would be most beneficial on carburetted 2-stroke and all those engines that pulls fuel into crankcase (E-TEC does not), but it should seal better in any engine. Could introduce some other new problems though. I guess new design is pretty much untested yet. * Bonus info: Snowmobile is called 'skoter' in Sweden. Pronounced exactly as 'scooter'. I grew up close to the Arctic Circle, so i didn't know a moped could be called 'skoter' until in my late twenties, LOL! No one had those. Most had dirtbike-lookalike mopeds.
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Post by tocoo on Oct 24, 2018 3:21:00 GMT -5
SInce I am running with the original CDI, I do not think you can properly choose the main jet without looking at the ring inside the spark plug. normally, you compare main jets by going as fast as you can and comparing top speeds and top PRMs, but with the restriction at 50km/h there is no way to do that.
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Oct 24, 2018 9:49:46 GMT -5
It not the speed of the scoot that matters, it the speed of the engine. Keep the engine over 6000 rpm and don’t let it idle biggest thing is when you get home, keep the throttle wide open and turn the engine off.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 25, 2018 11:57:53 GMT -5
SInce I am running with the original CDI, I do not think you can properly choose the main jet without looking at the ring inside the spark plug. normally, you compare main jets by going as fast as you can and comparing top speeds and top PRMs, but with the restriction at 50km/h there is no way to do that. Yep... but since it is restricted in RPM in my case, i'm happy if i find one that makes it run great up to 50 km/h without it running lean or too rich.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 25, 2018 13:24:15 GMT -5
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Post by tocoo on Oct 26, 2018 2:40:00 GMT -5
Yes it is the original. As I said in my thread about the death of my unrestricted CDI, you can de-restrict the original CDI by -disconnecting the extra blue wire -connecting the blue wire from the CDI to the 12V of the battery. People say to cut in half the black wire to the CDI and use one half to connect to the blue socket. I prefer to keep the wires as original as I can, so I just use a wire directly from the 12V of the battery to the blue connector.
Can you test this ?
I noted that that my spark plug is wet of fuel with the original restricted CDI, original coil [orange coil has resistance of 2000 homs and the start is even more difficult], idle jet = 33 and main jet = 82. It makes the scooter very hard to cold start on battery.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 26, 2018 12:20:33 GMT -5
Yes it is the original. As I said in my thread about the death of my unrestricted CDI, you can de-restrict the original CDI by -disconnecting the extra blue wire -connecting the blue wire from the CDI to the 12V of the battery. People say to cut in half the black wire to the CDI and use one half to connect to the blue socket. I prefer to keep the wires as original as I can, so I just use a wire directly from the 12V of the battery to the blue connector. Can you test this ? It would certainly be interesting to test it, but i'm unsure if i want to do it unless i can make it look completely untouched if i want it back to original. Looking in the workshop manual and trying to decipher it, it seems like the black wire going into the "4-connector" of CDI is either +12V (ignition on) or 0V depending on ignition key on/off. So when you say "cut in half" you mean connect a "thief" wire to it, still keeping the original black wire connection to CDI, and connecting thief to blue wire of CDI while completely disconnecting the original blue wire coming from engine to CDI? That would make sense because it would be like connecting blue CDI wire to battery but have ignition switch kill power to it when switch is off. I think that is the best solution. To do it right, i would also measure the current in the modified wires when it is working good, and then attach a suitable fuse in series with it, just to be safe. Especially if you connect the blue wire directly to battery - put in a fuse!! If going the "thief" way, make sure that "thief current" + "original current" in black wire does not heat up the wire before the thief (engine running), or comes close to fuse rating on that wire, if there is a fuse. It will most certainly not, but if you are very unlucky, might need to install a thicker wire in place of the black one to prevent melting of insulation and/or possible risk of fire.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Oct 26, 2018 12:31:51 GMT -5
Being on page 7 of this posting, I have lost track of what goes where and who's on first.
If you have a wet spark plug, either it is not firing(likely) or your carb is dumping too much fuel(float?) into the intake. Either way, it won't run for merde with too much fuel or a balky spark. The factory spec CDI and coil are adequate for 99% of things they are supposed to accomplish. The 'performance' CDI (orange) seem to be a joke, and I expect the coils are the same. The non-performance units seem to be made to a different spec. I think the capacitor in the orange CDI is not a correct value, causing the discharge curve to be modified from factory, resulting in early spark advance. I bet the coils have a different number of windings, perhaps to get higher voltage developed. I don't think it necessary. I would remove the spark plug, and clean it off, blow air across the electrode/insulator to dry it out. Hoping it does not leave any deposit that would affect sparking. The plug does not need to be tightened very tightly beyond the contact with the cylinder head, say 1/8 turn max. I found a #33 pilot jet caused starting difficulty in a 18mm Keihin, and also caused rich hesitation when accelerating from slow(not stopped, but doing a U-turn in the road). Went to a #30, and both conditions improved(72cc BBK). tom
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 26, 2018 13:14:03 GMT -5
@grumpyunk: I hijacked the thread (and apologized for doing so) from the start. Here is where i'm at now: 1. Still hesitating from standstill, but running super great otherwise (better than original because of new Keihin carb, airbox mod, and drilled vacuum petcock (latter didn't help)) 2. Need to try smaller pilot jets while keeping main jet at 84 (but winter is here, so postponing) 3. Could try derestrict CDI to get full RPM to really fine-tune main jet (but not sure i will) 4. If (2) is nogo on hesitation issue, see if i can do something about ignition timing 5. If (4) is nogo on hesitation issue, see if removing PAIR system completely and adjust valves helps tocoo is having CDI problems in another thread 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/23801/suddently-spark-dead-starter-relayand that problem leaked to this thread a little.
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Post by tocoo on Oct 27, 2018 0:12:34 GMT -5
Yes it is the original. As I said in my thread about the death of my unrestricted CDI, you can de-restrict the original CDI by -disconnecting the extra blue wire -connecting the blue wire from the CDI to the 12V of the battery. People say to cut in half the black wire to the CDI and use one half to connect to the blue socket. I prefer to keep the wires as original as I can, so I just use a wire directly from the 12V of the battery to the blue connector. Can you test this ? So when you say "cut in half" you mean connect a "thief" wire to it, still keeping the original black wire connection to CDI, and connecting thief to blue wire of CDI while completely disconnecting the original blue wire coming from engine to CDI? yes it is what I mean. I refuse to do slice the black wire, and I use a new wire to feed the blue connectoron the CDI. THe blue wire form the CVT is no longer connected.
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Post by tocoo on Oct 27, 2018 6:45:19 GMT -5
In any case, as soon as you want to use an unrestricted CDI for the 50cc kisbee, you need to remove the black wire form the 4-pin connector. It is hard to do by hand, so I left this task to the official dealer. On this video the guy uses his custom tool www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md-yCtGx5xgI received by unrestricted CDI today and the cold start on battery is way easier. I could not even start the scooter with the original CDI. I do not understand why I struggle so much, while you claim you have zero problem cold starting on battery. You really should choose your jets with unrestricted CDI and also with the ring at the base of the ceramic of the spark plug after applying WOT and turning the key OFF and braking. ANyway, i set also the mixture screw and I could decrease the mixture by 1 full turn. i am at 2,5 turns now. idle jet = 33, main jet = 82, original coil, original carburetor. spark plug gap at 0,75mm or 0,8mm.
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Oct 27, 2018 15:00:19 GMT -5
I could not even start the scooter with the original CDI. I do not understand why I struggle so much, while you claim you have zero problem cold starting on battery. I'm not 100% sure that i don't have a problem cold-starting. My scoot is parked in a 15-20 degrees garage so it is not cold in there. I don't use it to go to work. Usually i just take it for a spin few times a week, to shop stuff and whatnot. Maybe i leave it 2 hours tops outside in the cold, but it starts very easily if i open throttle a just a little while cranking starter. If i don't touch throttle, it is harder to start it. Then i have to crank it two-three times. You could try using the kick-start once or twice, with ignition off, before you try starter motor and see if that helps.
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