Suddently, no spark. CDI dead? what is the starter relay?

[tocoo]

My CDI was bought from the official dealer of PEugeot for the kisbee 4 stroke to derestrict the scooter. The CDI is 4 years old.
I do not have the original CDI. THe scooter has a AC CDI.

THe scooter started fine and the engine was idling fine, then I sat on the scooter and pushed the scooter forward to retract the main stand. I started to move back the scooter with the feet and to go forwards still by feet in order to leave the garage and go on the street.
I only need to push on my feet for 2 or 3 meters before entering the public street, but those 3 meters are slightly downwards.
Then all of a sudden, the engine stopped.
I never touched the throttle.

Generally, when the engine stops in this area where the scooter is tipped [rear is at higher altitude than the front], it messes with the fuel in the carburetor and the engine dies. but when I reach the flat public street,  I crank the engine and the scooter starts.

Today the engine did not start again and I do not even have spark. 2 days ago, i gapped my spark plug to 0,75mm and I checked I had good blue spark and the scooter started and ran well. And now I have nothing.

My questions are
-is the stator OK?
-is the wiring + coil ok?
-is the cdi dead?

I tested the volt AC and ohms according to the test on the manual and also to the video test of 90vet



test according to www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9-mr7BXIho

ground - wire blue-white = 149 ohm
cranking= 0,5 VAC

ground - wire black-red = 523 ohm
cranking = 109 VAC

test according to the manual




I also want to test the starter relay, but the tests online are for the 150cc with their starter relay looking like this


but my starter relay  is JQ103B-1
 

is the starter relay even involved in getting spark ? How do I test this relay?

[tocoo]

I forgot to mention that the current orange coil is a cheap aftermartket coil.But I tested with the original coil

[resistance of 8000 ohms, instead of 2000 ohms for the orange coil] and there is zero spark...

[gsx600racer]

Starter solenoid: If you turn the key on, squeeze brake lever, and push the starter button and the engine turns over then you solenoid is fine. The starter solenoid will not effect spark.

No spark: There are several things that effect spark.

Wiring: check all wiring, connectors, grounds.

Kill circuit. If there is a switch(besides the key switch), the wiring and switch would need to be tested.

CDI: There is no real way to test other than swapping with a "known" good one.

Stator: There is a exciter coil that you can test with a ohm meter and crank engine over to measure voltage.(maybe not if DC fired)

Pick up/trigger coil: This coil can be tested with a ohm meter. Also can test with impact wrench and multimeter set to AC(millivolts).

[FrankenMech]

Why would you be testing the stator AC output if you have a DC CDI? A DC CDI is powered by battery voltage from the ignition switch.

Did you crack your spark plug insulator when you gapped the plug?

My 50cc starter relay looks like the one in your first picture, they come in several configurations but they have the same function. The coil energizes the relay and the relay closes a high current switch to spin the starter.

[tocoo]

I have 2 used NGK spark plugs and each fails with both coils.

I tried to see if the 2 spark plug were cracked by measuring the resistance when they were cold like this


and they both show a resistance of 4000 ohms. The guy in the tutorial says he has 2 ohms. What is odd is that the spark plug were fine during a few rides.


Since the stator ouputs decent VAC and the coil has decent resistance, I tested the output of the CDI at the level of the two connectors of the orange coil. I removed black-yellow wire coming from the cdi to the coil, connected this wire to the multimeter in Volt AC and the black wire of the multimeter to a ground.
The output while cranking was 12.3 VAC.
Does this mean the CDI outputs enough volts for the coil ? and that would mean the 2 spark plugs are dead?

[jeff84]

have you ever had the flywheel removed? i once had the flywheel nut come loose which caused the key to shear and the only symptom was no spark. it took me forever to figure that one out.

[tocoo]

No the flywheel is stock and I do not even have the special tool to remove it.

I found the original CDI in some box and I installed it, with its connection to the blue wire coming from the CVT. The engine cranks and does not start over. I ordered a new spark plug, so I am waiting to receive it.
When I tested the VAC at the connector of the black-yellow wire from the original CDI to the coil, I get 1,5 VAC during cranking, instead of the 12,5 VAC with the unrestricted CDI. i expected the same value.
The CDI is actually AC, not DC.

[FrankenMech]

Forget the meter. Get a copy of the shop manual and follow the troubleshooting chart to the letter. Do NOT ASSUME anything.

You can find suitable manuals on 49ccscoot.

[tocoo]

I received the new spark plug and still no spark. the resistance of the new spark plug is 4200 ohms.
I
tried old spark plug +original CDI and I have spark. the scooter is idling right now. I will drive it for a run.

SO apparently, the derestricted CDI has died. I was lucky that it died in my garage and not when I am away from home. Now I would like to know if ther eis a way to bypass the CDI.

Can you tell me :
- how typically a CDI dies?
-how scooter before CDI make the spark plug spark ? Can gy6 scooter run without a CDI and instead rely on some mechanical CDI ?

[tocoo]

Also, the original CDI is restricted and the signal triggering the restriction is carried by wire from the CDI to the CVT cover, where there is a magnet triggered by the little bump on the clutch assembly, exactly like the pick-up from the fly-wheel of the stator.

My problem is that I have a new generic clutch assembly which lacks this little bump. I wonder how I can create this little bump. I have only a little soldering iron and some Solder. I s this enough to trigger the pickup ? Will the solder stick to the clutch even when the clutch spins super fast at high speed ?

[FrankenMech]

I keep two CDI units mounted next to each other, -just shift the wiring plug. I keep the spare unit connector covered with blue painter tape to keep dirt out.

Trash the extra wiring.

Those 'performance' CDI units are complete crap. Use the standard OEM CDI units.

[ratdog]

Maybe I’m lost here. Didn’t you say you have the orginal cdi installed and the bike is running? That would seem to me to indicate that the cdi will work without the rev limiter wire attached. If that’s the case, not connecting the rev limiter wire would give you a working cdi Wint No Rev Limiter.

I have never dealt with rev limit restricted CDIs, but I saw a lot of vids on Utube saying you could remove the restrictor by “ cutting the pink wire”. Maybe this is your “pink wire”, just a thought

im sure that the pick up is looking for a magnet.  If you were to make a new mount to hold it, I’m guessing you would have a magnet to trip it, and no, solder will not work.  I’m hopping that what you are finding is that it will run without the rev limiter wire, and you can just tape it off.  My guess is that it counts the pulses from the magnet passing by the sensor and when it gets to some number per second it triggers the “to fast” condition.  If it runs with out it, then it will never get the too fast indicator 

[gsx600racer]

I 2nd being lost too. But......

When I watched this vid things made sense, sorta. Peugeot obvious wired their CDI's a bit differently than the norm chinese CDI wiring. What still stumps me, If you pull the wire from the 4 wire plug, wouldn't it be re-connected to the blue wire from the engine? In the vid they tape them both up. Then again I am thinking that the blue wire is coming from the trigger/pulse coil. Maybe its from something else.

[tocoo]

yes this is diagram of the electrical circuit.




Number 13 is the restriction on the CVT: I have the original pulley with the bump so I am limited to 50 km/h and 7800 RPMs, but with the generic pulley without the bump, the scooter goes up to 6600 RPMs and around 30km/h [plus horrible rattling sound in the pulley]

The CDI limits the RPMs at 6800 when the blue wire is not connected or when there is no bump on the pulley.

People on the internet claim that the original CDI can be de-restricted by disconnecting from the CDI the blue wire coming from the CVT and instead connecting this entry of the CDI to a 12V battery.
I tried it and it indeed removes the rev-limiter. On the main stand I can go up to 7200 RPMS, but I have not tested on the road.

 
A specialized seller for gy6 scooter says that, for the 139qmb 50cc, The generic CDI which is unrestricted does not need one of the wire on the 4-pin connector. Indeed my dead CDI was used without this wire [this wire is colored black and it carries 12V from the battery when ignition is ON and 0v when the ignition is OFF]

however, the seller says that for 150cc and above, this black wire must be connected to the generic unrestricted CDI.
THis black wire must be connected to the original CDI for the 50cc, perhaps for the 150cc too.



I ordered an unrestricted CDI: the naraku NK390.24 with adjustable timing. I do not plan on messing with the timing though. Somebody who has a kisbee 4 stroke said this cdi worked well  so I am confident it will work out of the box for me.