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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 21, 2019 17:04:15 GMT -5
I have a 2008 newly rebuild 150cc motor has only 3 miles on rebuild, My problem is it will start on first kick maybe second at most, BUT on The key start new fresh battery, 12.85v at starter solenoid brand new starter, it will not start it. Checked voltage on the starter side of solenoid Voltage will run drop to 10.9v. Almost sounds electrical.  |
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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 21, 2019 17:06:31 GMT -5
I have a 2008 newly rebuild 150cc motor has only 3 miles on rebuild, My problem is it will start on first kick maybe second at most, BUT on The key start new fresh battery, 12.85v at starter solenoid brand new starter, it will not start it. Checked voltage on the starter side of solenoid Voltage will run drop to 10.9v. Almost sounds electrical. I no your thinking about the jl50qt-50cc. |
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Post by oakleyscoot on Feb 21, 2019 19:59:39 GMT -5
It could very well be electrical...
You mention the voltage at the battery is 12.8, yet at starter solenoid it is 10.9. This would indicate
a fair voltage drop when load is applied.
Do this. Get battery voltage back to 12.8 (put it back in scooter) , then take your volt meter and place the leads on the battery posts and note voltage, then hit starter button and see what the battery voltage drop is.
you need not spin starter for very long to see what the drop is.
For sake of example... say battery voltage is 12.6-12.8 and when you hit starter it drops to 11 volts.. ok, not bad.
Now leave negative lead on battery neg post and place + lead on the starter post now note the voltage read at the starter post.
Again for example 12.6-8 at battery and when you hit the starter button you measure 10.something or less at the starter lug.
This tells you you have over 2.5 volt voltage drop in your wiring or wiring/solenoid.
Here is where you look at the ground wire (battery to probable engine block) and positive wires going from the battery to one side of the starter solenoid and the wire from the starter solenoid to the starter lug.
All of these wires can corrode inside the casing and or have bad connections which can help cause voltage drop.
IF one replaces these wires with larger dia (smaller gauge) wire voltage drop will decrease.
You can also double up on the wires, run a second of same size to each location, this too will decrease voltage drop because you are effectively increasing wire size.
Lets also assume you do all these voltage drop tests and you find your only dropping about 1.5 volts.. then I would take a look at the starter brushes or just the starter itself as maybe the bushings are dry and there is extra spin resistance or maybe the brushes are pretty worn out and they no longer make proper armature contact this poor starter performance..
Just suggestions of things to look at when trying to figure out what went south..
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Post by pinkscoot on Feb 21, 2019 21:13:49 GMT -5
What is your compression? Could be too high and your starter doesn’t have enough ass to turn it over.
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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 21, 2019 23:41:29 GMT -5
What is your compression? Could be too high and your starter doesn’t have enough ass to turn it over. Have not test compression, its high because when you start to kick start you have to push extra hard on kick start to get past compression stroke. Put Brand new starter on today, doing the same thing on New and old. Going to test volt drop tomorrow. |
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Post by scooterpimp on Feb 22, 2019 12:41:24 GMT -5
Pull the spark plug & see if starter spins engine over
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Feb 22, 2019 14:22:24 GMT -5
From reading, kick start will create higher compression pressure than electric start in most cases. That indicates the kick start is stronger, and turns the crankshaft at higher rpm.
Only fix it higher battery capacity and a stronger starter motor that can equal the kick-start rpms.
You may have bad connections(all the voltage measurements suggested are searches for bad/high resistance connections/wires), a weak battery, or a weak starter motor(bad brushes/weak permanent field magnets).
A battery can have good voltage, indicating its at a good charge state, but be unable to produce proper amperage to operate the starter. Your voltage drop to ~10V when cranking is at the low end of acceptable voltage under cranking load. To test if it is battery capacity, connect known good, high capacity jumper cables to an auto battery (that CAN crank over a multi-cylinder engine) and see what the voltage drops to. It may just start the 50CC engine with the added amperage.
tom
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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 22, 2019 19:51:13 GMT -5
Pull the spark plug & see if starter spins engine over Done that turns over with no problem. |
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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 22, 2019 19:53:04 GMT -5
From reading, kick start will create higher compression pressure than electric start in most cases. That indicates the kick start is stronger, and turns the crankshaft at higher rpm. Only fix it higher battery capacity and a stronger starter motor that can equal the kick-start rpms. You may have bad connections(all the voltage measurements suggested are searches for bad/high resistance connections/wires), a weak battery, or a weak starter motor(bad brushes/weak permanent field magnets). A battery can have good voltage, indicating its at a good charge state, but be unable to produce proper amperage to operate the starter. Your voltage drop to ~10V when cranking is at the low end of acceptable voltage under cranking load. To test if it is battery capacity, connect known good, high capacity jumper cables to an auto battery (that CAN crank over a multi-cylinder engine) and see what the voltage drops to. It may just start the 50CC engine with the added amperage. tom Tom, what would be a good starter for high compression, Ive just install a stock starter but its doing the same thing. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 22, 2019 20:49:17 GMT -5
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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 23, 2019 23:22:36 GMT -5
From reading, kick start will create higher compression pressure than electric start in most cases. That indicates the kick start is stronger, and turns the crankshaft at higher rpm. Only fix it higher battery capacity and a stronger starter motor that can equal the kick-start rpms. You may have bad connections(all the voltage measurements suggested are searches for bad/high resistance connections/wires), a weak battery, or a weak starter motor(bad brushes/weak permanent field magnets). A battery can have good voltage, indicating its at a good charge state, but be unable to produce proper amperage to operate the starter. Your voltage drop to ~10V when cranking is at the low end of acceptable voltage under cranking load. To test if it is battery capacity, connect known good, high capacity jumper cables to an auto battery (that CAN crank over a multi-cylinder engine) and see what the voltage drops to. It may just start the 50CC engine with the added amperage. tom Tom, what would be a good starter for high compression, Ive just install a stock starter but its doing the same thing. Jump the scooter off from my truck, did not turn over any faster also put charger on quick start. Starter still drags, took out spark plug , moter and starter turns over like it should. Put finger over spark plug hole starter draged, with my charger on battery voltage was 13.7v Same reading on battery side of relay pushed starter button put red probe on starter wire voltage droped to 10v. It will run with kick start after mabe 2 to 3 kicks. I will say after kick start gets passed compression stroke then its easy to kick, when its on compression stroke you have to really push on kick start. LOST on this one, I need someone smarter then me to HELP. |
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Post by benji on Feb 23, 2019 23:43:28 GMT -5
Sounds like a bad ground. Use your meter to see what voltage the starter is seeing when you hit the button and it's dragging.
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Post by benji on Feb 23, 2019 23:44:50 GMT -5
I also, check your compression.
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Post by frankwallace2003 on Feb 26, 2019 16:32:58 GMT -5
I also, check your compression. Thanks Benji it was a ground problem, Thanks everyone for your help. |
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