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Post by johnny248 on May 8, 2019 11:31:13 GMT -5
Hey guys, I'm new over here. Quick background, I've been building Elites for years and now I'm building a Minarelli motor and having a heck of a time with it.
Horizontal Minarelli / Zuma Clone engine in an Adly GTA50
S6 MKII AC Kit
Athena 12mm Crank
Naraku Intake
24mm PWK
Yasuni C21 pipe.
Polini Variator
Malossi Clutch
I can't get this thing to run right. With a 122 MJ, Needle 1 clip Lean, 38 pilot, 4.5g roller, Red Contra. It revs up nice off the ground, but on the ground I can barely get it to go. It will only rev to about 8700 rpm and it doesn't do it very easily. It just doesn't want to really get up and run in the power band. I am new to Minarelli engines and could really use some help. Am I'm totally off on my carb and cvt setup? The carb seemed pretty good while jetting it off the ground, but on the ground it's a different story.
I would HUGELY appreciate any help from you guys out there.
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Post by ryan_ott on May 8, 2019 12:39:33 GMT -5
Which clutch springs are you using? Good pipes are dead down low to overcome that tight clutch springs are used. You may need a 8K+ engagement rpm.
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Post by johnny248 on May 8, 2019 15:47:56 GMT -5
Which clutch springs are you using? Good pipes are dead down low to overcome that tight clutch springs are used. You may need a 8K+ engagement rpm. So I just switched out the clutch to a He adjustable with blue springs, which says it's 7000-11000 , I have it on the lowest setting. It's actually moving better now, but it is a little slow taking off, then it hits power band and revs clear up to 12k. There are currently 4.5g rollers in it. When you are riding wide open at 11-12k and slow down to go around a turn or something, and then tip back into th throttle it hangs as if it is not "downshifting" and it is slow until the rpm gets going |
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Post by oldgeek on May 8, 2019 16:51:31 GMT -5
With the red contra, it should downshift easily. Go for stronger clutch springs/settings. That combo may have a narrowish power band.
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Post by ryan_ott on May 8, 2019 16:59:38 GMT -5
TD pulley in good shape? Cleaned, greased and slots in good shape. Which red spring, Malossi yeah that should downshift no problem, generic red - I’d pass. It’s a balancing act to find the right weight and spring combo for your needs.
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mattyslimz
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 222
Location: Northern Virginia
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Post by mattyslimz on May 8, 2019 20:13:51 GMT -5
Hi, how long ago did you install the MkII bore? Have you fully broken-in the engine? Especially with the new crank. I’m just now feeling the full potential on my new bore and it’s taken 300+ miles. I always remember growing up around quads and new dirtbikes, I’d always overhear the adults saying “You break it in hard, it will always run hard” whatever that meant.
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Post by johnny248 on May 8, 2019 23:14:21 GMT -5
With the red contra, it should downshift easily. Go for stronger clutch springs/settings. That combo may have a narrowish power band. It's a Malossi Red using the Evo Slider which came with the Polini Variator kit. After some more tweaking, what I have ended up with is the following: Top Variator with 3.5gram rollers. I wasn't having good luck with the Polini Variator. I noticed that the diameter of the drive boss is smaller with the Top Performance Variator, which I assumed would allow the belt to ride lower in take off. Now when riding the bike has very, very little low end power. It will rev to 7-9K maybe without going very fast and then hit power band and the mid range will pull very hard up to ~13.9K rpm and settle down a bit to somewhere in the 12K's while running wide open. The mid range and top end power is working very well but the low end / take off is terrible. I need to figure that out. The clutch is engaging in the low to mid 6K range, but then it as I said it revs up somewhere into the 7k-9k range but just doesn't get going until it really hits the power band. It just feels and sounds like it is trying very hard to get the bike going without getting there quickly. If I can just get the take off to rev and "Hit" to accelerate up to speed where the power band really takes over. Sorry for such a long message, but here are the facts S6 MKI - 24mm PWK 35 pilot, N68E needle with clip at first position (leanest) from top. 121 MJ. - Top Variator with 3.5 GR rollers. - Hebo Adjustable Clutch with Blue Springs (~7K) and Malossi Red Contra. As mentioned, I have basically no take off until the engine comes to life and flys up to ~13K RPM. I will be completely happy with it if I can just get some acceleration from a stop Thanks again everyone! |
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Post by PIG on May 8, 2019 23:38:06 GMT -5
With that pipe, there is no low end power. Like the other guys said, you need stiffer clutch springs. Set it up to start engaging at 8k. It’s your pipe. That’s a full on race pipe my man, you gotta rev the shit out of it. My bike doesn’t even move till 9k.
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lupo76
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 157
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Post by lupo76 on May 9, 2019 6:04:53 GMT -5
Nothing clutch related, but imho a 121MJ is too big. Similar Setup we´re using a 85MJ... Also block off the powerjet.
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Post by ThomasTPFL on May 9, 2019 10:29:57 GMT -5
Nothing clutch related, but imho a 121MJ is too big. Similar Setup we´re using a 85MJ... Also block off the powerjet. Are you using as big a carb though? 24mm is on the large side for a 70cc. That thing is going to be low on vacuum until it's really spinning. |
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Post by johnny248 on May 9, 2019 11:00:33 GMT -5
Nothing clutch related, but imho a 121MJ is too big. Similar Setup we´re using a 85MJ... Also block off the powerjet. Are you using as big a carb though? 24mm is on the large side for a 70cc. That thing is going to be low on vacuum until it's really spinning. 85 seems super lean on a 24mm pwk with that BBK?? |
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Post by Lucass2T on May 9, 2019 15:09:50 GMT -5
80'ish size jet is very small. You'll probably have some air restriction or a flow issue sonewhere in that airpump aka engine.
Anyway, TS. Make a video where you're trying to accelerate or whatever you think isnt doing what its supposed to be doing and make the audio very clear so we can clearly hear whats going on.
A c21 is also a very high revving pipe that is overkill for a stock non ported S6 mkII.
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Post by 190mech on May 9, 2019 16:46:56 GMT -5
I was gonna suggest a C16 for that build,but I see you all already spoke the truth about a C21!  |
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Post by 'O'Verse on May 9, 2019 19:15:56 GMT -5
There use to be a member on here by the name of Jareeb. He built a Spree with a minarelli swap. Pretty close set up to what your running. MKII with a c16. 72mph set up. Here's his build thread. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/10061/honda-spree-winter-rebuild-planning?page=5. If you scroll to the bottom of the page he states that his powerband doesn't come on till 8k rpms with a c16. Like the guys mentioned before I'd Atleast try to get your rpms up to 9k with stiffer clutch springs. My 77 doesn't leave till about 9-10k either. But once it does it hits hard all the way to 14k. It's a different ride all together trying to rev up to 10k before you rocket out of the hole. But you get use to it. Lol! |
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lupo76
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 157
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Post by lupo76 on May 10, 2019 1:25:24 GMT -5
Nothing clutch related, but imho a 121MJ is too big. Similar Setup we´re using a 85MJ... Also block off the powerjet. Are you using as big a carb though? 24mm is on the large side for a 70cc. That thing is going to be low on vacuum until it's really spinning. I do. But its a 75cc cylinder. Powerjet blocked. And I dont have air restriction or something else. Bike runs fine  |
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