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Post by fast1075 on May 11, 2019 0:56:15 GMT -5
I recently bought a Hoca Power kit. Included in the kit is a clutch listed as 107mm. The stock clutch in my Keeway engine is 112mm.
I had asked the vendor if they could substitute a 112mm clutch in the kit. Answer was, the kits are prepackaged, so no.
So I get the kit in. Measure everything. The resting OD of the 107mm clutch is 107.65mm, and will not fit in a 107mm bell that measures 107.11mm ID. Physically too big. I called the vendor, and he sent me note that I needed a 112mm bell, and recommended a racing bell he sold. Why would a clutch be marketed as 107mm, and not use a 107mm bell?
The issue is, there is a large air gap between the pads and the bell. It looks to me as if when in operation, only the tips of the pads will contact the bell, and the lining on the pads is quite thin. The surface finish on the new bell is rough, like anti-skid material. I am afraid, I will have a short lived setup.
Anyone that can give me the straight skinny?
Also, I had considered installing new pads on the original 112mm clutch that has worn friction material. I have bought two sets that are supposed to work, but when installed are only 107mm od. No where can I find any parts that include specifications such as installed od.
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Post by oldgeek on May 11, 2019 5:24:16 GMT -5
I suspect its just typical poor tolerance parts.
You are correct, the 107mm should not be used with the 112mm bell. There is not enough contact. Possibly you could just sand down the 107mm clutch pads a bit?
Love your signature! sadly sooooooo true!
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Post by fast1075 on May 11, 2019 6:40:23 GMT -5
I found on ebay a set of replacement clutch pads that the fitment info says are for a 112mm clutch. Bought them. If they are the right size, I will use them with my stock 112mm bell with red springs. I sent the vendor that I got the other pads from, asking him to please specify in his catalog that their replacement shoes are for a 107mm clutch, instead of "fits minarelli horizonal 50/90". On top of that, it took mix n match of the two kits to end up with 3 pads machined well enough to fit and work, if they were the right ones. Once I figure it all out, I will post specific information about the setup so maybe some other schmuck won't have to blunder his way thru this. Pic below is to show the crappy fit of a poorly machined pad. The pad will not fit onto the post low enough to get the thrust washer and sap clip on. Hole is bored at an angle. Tip of pad hits backing plate before the pad is all the way down. See the gap between the pad and post? Should be flush.  |
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Post by harleyracer59 on May 11, 2019 15:08:53 GMT -5
if its ebay and you used paypal, id demand a refund. tell ebay parts are not described correctly. or you were given wrong parets and seller is trying to squeeze you for more money for parts to make these parts work. leave negative feed back on seller and if ebay does nothing contact paypal. ebay is usually really good about this type of issue. they'll make seller pay for return shipping which they usually don't want to do. so youll probably get refund and keep the poorly measured parts... good luck
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Post by fast1075 on May 11, 2019 15:28:51 GMT -5
if its ebay and you used paypal, id demand a refund. tell ebay parts are not described correctly. or you were given wrong parets and seller is trying to squeeze you for more money for parts to make these parts work. leave negative feed back on seller and if ebay does nothing contact paypal. ebay is usually really good about this type of issue. they'll make seller pay for return shipping which they usually don't want to do. so youll probably get refund and keep the poorly measured parts... good luck
In the case of the seller, they are a well known parts supplier. They refunded my money, and sent a second set of clutch pads. They are really good people. It is just with the clutch thing, maybe the parts guy depended too much on what the erroneous parts info said.
I'm 65 years old and have been in the mechanical trades all my life. Sometimes you get crappy parts, no matter what you are working on.
I am going to pick up a 2008 Vento Triton in the morning, so any odd parts I have on hand will work on it, Im sure.
Scruffy The Scooter will get done anyhow. The clutch isn't the big issue now. Had a cylinder stud pull the threads out of the case installing a new BBK. I won't get the Time-sert kit in until Monday anyway. Then it goes back together.
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Post by harleyracer59 on May 11, 2019 17:22:32 GMT -5
that's good to hear the vendor is a stand up individual and did right by you. those sellers are getting harder to find these days. there are some though.
ive been a mechanic by trade since 16 and im 38 now. I can 110% agree with you that there are shitty parts out there for anything and everything we could think of that weve looked at. lol
I just don't understand how when these dingle berries are found, I couldn't have been the first to find it and I wonder how the hell any other unlucky individuals didn't say anything or how they got the job done with a part that is wrong?
and then theres the time lost with the whole mess. that sucks too.
glad to here you got it figured out and hopefully Monday is smooth sailing with the rest for you!
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Post by fast1075 on Jun 11, 2019 8:18:03 GMT -5
Update: I found a local mechanic that does a LOT of scooter work. I posed the same questions to him about the clutch, since there are no specifications I can find anywhere.
He said to bring him the bell and one of the shoes. Upon inspection, he pointed out that the only concern is if the arc of the shoe matches the inside of the bell. He put the shoe in the bell, and it matched exactly.
If you examine the way the clutch works, it "pushes" the bell, rather than "drags". The shoe is pushed into the bell by the direction of rotation.
In other words, in spite of the parts LOOKING incompatible, they actually work. After 100 miles of use, I pulled the CVT apart to check wear, and the pads are wearing evenly across the entire contact area.
In short, all is well. These are things you will not find in a manual.
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Post by fugaziiv on Jun 11, 2019 9:19:21 GMT -5
I suspect its just typical poor tolerance parts. You are correct, the 107mm should not be used with the 112mm bell. There is not enough contact. Possibly you could just sand down the 107mm clutch pads a bit? Love your signature! sadly sooooooo true! HOCA didn't have poor tolerance. It wasn't Chinese product. And as has been found out, those HOCA OD 107's are designed to bite up to a ID 112mm bell. I wish I saw this thread sooner, I could have answered this one. Sorry guys. Matt |
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Post by oldgeek on Jun 11, 2019 16:38:46 GMT -5
I suspect its just typical poor tolerance parts. You are correct, the 107mm should not be used with the 112mm bell. There is not enough contact. Possibly you could just sand down the 107mm clutch pads a bit? Love your signature! sadly sooooooo true! HOCA didn't have poor tolerance. It wasn't Chinese product. And as has been found out, those HOCA OD 107's are designed to bite up to a ID 112mm bell. I wish I saw this thread sooner, I could have answered this one. Sorry guys.Matt So what am I missing? The 107mm HOCA clutch is designed "To bite up to a 112mm bell" but they will not fit a 107mm bell as the OP said? |
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Post by fugaziiv on Jun 11, 2019 16:45:54 GMT -5
HOCA didn't have poor tolerance. It wasn't Chinese product. And as has been found out, those HOCA OD 107's are designed to bite up to a ID 112mm bell. I wish I saw this thread sooner, I could have answered this one. Sorry guys.Matt So what am I missing? The 107mm HOCA clutch is designed "To bite up to a 112mm bell" but they will not fit a 107mm bell as the OP said? I think he stated that it did end up fitting... unless I too am confused. Matt |
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Post by fast1075 on Jun 13, 2019 10:35:29 GMT -5
To clarify: The "107mm" Hoca clutch would not fit in a stock 107mm clutch bell.
The Hoca "107mm" clutch works just fine in a 112MM bell. I was afraid it would wear the tips of the pads. The way the clutch actually works, the full length of the pads contact the 112mm bell in spite of the seeming difference.
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Post by fast1075 on Jun 18, 2019 10:18:18 GMT -5
Here is a picture of the "107mm" clutch in a 107mm bell. Bell size verified by micrometer.  |
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Post by repherence2 on Jun 18, 2019 20:29:50 GMT -5
Here is a picture of the "107mm" clutch in a 107mm bell. Bell size verified by micrometer. ever since I switched out my stock bell (on my Chinarelli) to a Polini 107mm bell and now I only buy DIO clutches. I've used the Polini 2G, Malossi Fly, and now I use the Stage 6 Torque Control. so basically, if you have a 107mm bell, you can use clutches made for DIOs without any problems. |
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