fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Jul 31, 2019 12:22:15 GMT -5
I stumbled upon this part while
browsing scooter parts on Thansen.
I'll translate the info text here (i'm a swede though and text is in norwegian but i think i can manage): ----
This system is now mounted on many motocross bikes. It it will give faster and larger air intake compared to the fuel mixture, and because of that, more low end power (faster up revving).
Place the expansion canister onto the bike frame, higher up than the lowest point on the carburetor. Beware that the expansion canister should not be mounted with the jet (air hole) pointing upwards.
Find a suitable placement on the top most part of the intake manifold. Then unmount the intake and make a 10mm hole, if the intake is made of rubber. The hole should be 8.5mm if the intake is made of aluminium.
After that, cut threads 10 x 1.25mm. Block the connection on the line and mount the part again. Make sure that the connection is 100% air tight or it will have no effect.
---
This seems very odd! I'm trying to figure out how it works if it is not a scam. I have some ideas but they don't make much sense. Why would you want to lean out fuel mixture on low revs? And how can this thing accomplish that?
So i'm wondering if you guys by any chance have tried one of these things or know what the correct english term for it is? "Intake amplifier" does not seem to be the correct term, directly translated.
EDIT: BTW, posted in 2-stroke section because they talked about 'motocross' in the info text. Probably more likely with 2-stroke but i know there are some 4-stroke motocross bikes too.
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Post by catchacuda on Jul 31, 2019 13:04:42 GMT -5
They're on eBay as "boost bottles". The eBay descriptions don't seem to have the sales marketing nonsense though.
I think it's snake oil, someone is just looking to make a profit. I'd love to be proved wrong though.
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Post by aeroxbud on Jul 31, 2019 14:35:31 GMT -5
Was loads about these years ago. Apparently the do not really work very well on reed valve engines.
Have pretty much fallen out of favour now.
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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 31, 2019 16:45:21 GMT -5
they have there placeand could be used on piston ports and reed engines. theres so many variables that come into play. size of bottle, size of hose, length of hose, even material of bottle. more give less give from strength of intake pulse. even the location of where you connect the bottle matters. unless you can understand and comply to all these parameter's, you could lose performance when everythings not right. this isn't nasa so use at your on risk... lol
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fhol
Scoot Member
Peugeot Kisbee 4T 2016
Posts: 81
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Post by fhol on Jul 31, 2019 17:12:11 GMT -5
Thanks guys for quick replies! "boost bottles" haha!
Yep to me it stinks of scam but i would also like to be proven wrong. I think the last part in the description "make sure it is perfectly air tight or it won't work" kinda gives the scam away, like they can always claim that it is not air tight if you complain to them that it does nothing.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 1, 2019 13:43:54 GMT -5
I never had much luck with them on 2T reed inducted engines. I ran one for a while though. Kinda thought it helped, but I think I wanted it to work. I used to use them on piston port pocket bikes and they did help there. You could actually feel the difference with them. A company called ADA Racing used to even make a part that bolted inline in the intake side with a passage and cavity in it to act like a boost bottle. They called it a Juice Box. I had one of those too, but the boost bottle worked just as well and I could make it from PVC for way less. 4Ts, no. From my experience with them, the less efficient the valve system is, the better it seems to work.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Aug 1, 2019 21:05:43 GMT -5
They work the issue with a boost bottle is you can't sell one size fits all like they do ! It does not work that way two of the same motors will use a different size bottles . It takes a little time to figure out with out a Dyno the Dyno saves you all the damn riding and that's the time lol there is a formula for the volume needed i should look for it .. When properly set up the boost bottle will give you a nice hard pull off the bottom or when you chop the throttle still low to mid hit are only effected . Once your up in rpm Velocity and gravity do the same thing or take over .
I for got this you can build one from PVC pipe and two caps and a barb that way you can adjust the size of it just don't glue one side till you get it right .That way if you cut it long you can shorten it till you get it tuned right . The 4 stroke does not have the same type of intake charge and sound wave so the boost bottle is not effective at all .
90Vert used the ADA ! lol I was in the Goped scene we even had a World trophy in Quads ! All my experience with boost bottles come from my time with Banshee's ATV's and motocross racing ..
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 1, 2019 22:24:48 GMT -5
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Post by repherence2 on Aug 1, 2019 23:17:02 GMT -5
I ran one of those on my 94cc and I didn't think it made a difference. made the set up look cool and fancy though.
I also have a gas engine beach cruiser that I used to ride to work. I made my own boost bottle from a cheap "Hawaiian" metal water bottle. drilled and tapped the plastic cap and installed a barb fitting. drilled and tapped the intake manifold and installed 1/4" barb fittings. I could tell that it made a difference. the engine ran smoother in the low rpm. it didn't seem to vibrate the bike as much too. I perceived difference, so I left it installed.
that beach cruiser once out ran a whole group of tourists on SYM DD50's. a coworker paced me on base and said that it got up to 40 before he started to slow down. those kits are pretty neat for what they are. the only drawback was that the factory head gasket came pinched from the factory. by design at that time, the gasket inner diameter was smaller than the outside diameter. I kept blowing out aluminum head gaskets. ordered a new slant head and a lot more gaskets. received the new parts and matched up the gasket to the head. that's how I figured out the pinch issue. opened up the inner diameter of the gasket to fit around the raised face of the head's sealing surface. never had problems with it after that. the only part that keeps failing was the magneto. they are pretty cheap, but just the fact that the magneto does not hold up well to continuous long rides.
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 2, 2019 1:01:05 GMT -5
I ran one of those on my 94cc and I didn't think it made a difference. made the set up look cool and fancy though. I also have a gas engine beach cruiser that I used to ride to work. I made my own boost bottle from a cheap "Hawaiian" metal water bottle. drilled and tapped the plastic cap and installed a barb fitting. drilled and tapped the intake manifold and installed 1/4" barb fittings. I could tell that it made a difference. the engine ran smoother in the low rpm. it didn't seem to vibrate the bike as much too. I perceived difference, so I left it installed. that beach cruiser once out ran a whole group of tourists on SYM DD50's. a coworker paced me on base and said that it got up to 40 before he started to slow down. those kits are pretty neat for what they are. the only drawback was that the factory head gasket came pinched from the factory. by design at that time, the gasket inner diameter was smaller than the outside diameter. I kept blowing out aluminum head gaskets. ordered a new slant head and a lot more gaskets. received the new parts and matched up the gasket to the head. that's how I figured out the pinch issue. opened up the inner diameter of the gasket to fit around the raised face of the head's sealing surface. never had problems with it after that. the only part that keeps failing was the magneto. they are pretty cheap, but just the fact that the magneto does not hold up well to continuous long rides. I bet the Hawaiian water bottle worked better because of its thin walls. it would give and take. in the oil fields they use a dampener on the high pressure glycol lines. except those have a diaphragm with co2 at different psi in them to take the pulse and dampen the shock of the pump pulse. you could look at the line gauge and tell when a dampener had blown. Yamaha had them on there quads too. those had a pocket in them to dampen the pulse also. I think that lack of an internal diaphragm or too thick of walls on most boost bottles sold is the problem with them. I wanted to make one with an inflated balloon inside to take the shock of the pulses. but its low on a huge list of things id like to do these days. psi in the balloon can affect the outcome too. like I said and others have too, there are a lot of variables that go into designing and building one. it is not one size fits all. |
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Post by repherence2 on Aug 2, 2019 22:21:30 GMT -5
I ran one of those on my 94cc and I didn't think it made a difference. made the set up look cool and fancy though. I also have a gas engine beach cruiser that I used to ride to work. I made my own boost bottle from a cheap "Hawaiian" metal water bottle. drilled and tapped the plastic cap and installed a barb fitting. drilled and tapped the intake manifold and installed 1/4" barb fittings. I could tell that it made a difference. the engine ran smoother in the low rpm. it didn't seem to vibrate the bike as much too. I perceived difference, so I left it installed. that beach cruiser once out ran a whole group of tourists on SYM DD50's. a coworker paced me on base and said that it got up to 40 before he started to slow down. those kits are pretty neat for what they are. the only drawback was that the factory head gasket came pinched from the factory. by design at that time, the gasket inner diameter was smaller than the outside diameter. I kept blowing out aluminum head gaskets. ordered a new slant head and a lot more gaskets. received the new parts and matched up the gasket to the head. that's how I figured out the pinch issue. opened up the inner diameter of the gasket to fit around the raised face of the head's sealing surface. never had problems with it after that. the only part that keeps failing was the magneto. they are pretty cheap, but just the fact that the magneto does not hold up well to continuous long rides. I bet the Hawaiian water bottle worked better because of its thin wals. it would give and take. in the oil fields they use a dampener on the high pressure glycol lines. except those have a diaphragm with co2 at different psi in them to take the pulse and dampen the shock of the pump pulse. you could look at the line gauge and tell when a dampener had blown. Yamaha had them on there quads too. those had a pocket in them to dampen the pulse also. I think that lack of an internal diaphragm or too thick of walls on most boost bottles sold is the problem with them. I wanted to make one with an inflated balloon inside to take the shock of the pulses. but its low on a huge list of things id like to do these days. psi in the balloon can affect the outcome too. like I said and others have too, there are a lot of variables that go into designing and building one. it is not one size fits all. you are correct about the " Hawaiian" water bottle. I found it in the tourist section of the supermarket, red with Hawaiian flower printing. yes, it is very thin wall metal. I agree with you on it acting like a damper. I read about the boost bottles before I made mine. but I decided to go bigger on the hose and chamber. hence 1/4" hose and fittings. the chamber is probably 3x the cylinder's volume. those fluid dampers with the diaphragm or air bladder, in my field of work, we call them desurgers. |
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 2, 2019 23:08:30 GMT -5
I bet the Hawaiian water bottle worked better because of its thin wals. it would give and take. in the oil fields they use a dampener on the high pressure glycol lines. except those have a diaphragm with co2 at different psi in them to take the pulse and dampen the shock of the pump pulse. you could look at the line gauge and tell when a dampener had blown. Yamaha had them on there quads too. those had a pocket in them to dampen the pulse also. I think that lack of an internal diaphragm or too thick of walls on most boost bottles sold is the problem with them. I wanted to make one with an inflated balloon inside to take the shock of the pulses. but its low on a huge list of things id like to do these days. psi in the balloon can affect the outcome too. like I said and others have too, there are a lot of variables that go into designing and building one. it is not one size fits all. you are correct about the " Hawaiian" water bottle. I found it in the tourist section of the supermarket, red with Hawaiian flower printing. yes, it is very thin wall metal. I agree with you on it acting like a damper. I read about the boost bottles before I made mine. but I decided to go bigger on the hose and chamber. hence 1/4" hose and fittings. the chamber is probably 3x the cylinder's volume. those fluid dampers with the diaphragm or air bladder, in my field of work, we call them desurgers. that's what they were called bladders. except these were filled with co2 not air, if I remember correctly. I think a boost bottle would work a lot better with an air bladder in them. kinda like a trampoline for the intake charge to bounce off inside the boost bottle. easiest way to explain my theory. lol but how much air would you/ should you put in the bladder? theres just so many variables involved in those things. Yamaha didn't just slap a bottle on the intake and call it a day, the one they built for the banchee is more complex than that. and those work. I wonder how much money Yamaha invested in the development of them..? |
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Post by catchacuda on Aug 3, 2019 1:50:39 GMT -5
Why is dampening a 2T intake pulse desirable? Not trolling, I'm genuinely interested.
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