Unbelievable! How do you talk to someone like this?

[badmotorscooter]

I ordered a performance variator  from ebay, it came from Taiwan and was the wrong diameter.  88mm vs 108mm stock.

This is the communication I had with the seller:

So according to this knowledgeable and experienced person the smaller diameter variator will work fine?

This leaves me with three options:

1)  I am a retard and have zero mechanical ability.

2)  I am insane.

3)  I was unknowingly transported to a parallel universe where mathematics and geometry are different.

Please comment and pick which of the three options you think it might be so I can attempt to move on and rebuild my shattered life...

[FrankenMech]

#1

Send them pictures with the measurements and VIN plate info.

[tortoise2]

Aug 6, 2020 13:57:57 GMT -5 badmotorscooter said:

This leaves me with three options:

1)  I am a retard and have zero mechanical ability.

2)  I am insane.

3)  I was unknowingly transported to a parallel universe where mathematics and geometry are different.

Please comment and pick which of the three options you think it might be so I can attempt to move on and rebuild my shattered life...

Option 4 would be replacing the 50cc scooter with one that is ACTUALLY compatible with your performance expectations, and LEAVING IT STOCK . . sure would save yourself a LOT of aggravation!

[badmotorscooter]

Tortoise, I am moving to New Mexico and a 50cc scooter requires no tags or insurance. Right now with the stock variator, boss shaved one millimeter, and 5 gram roller weights it hits about 41 mph at 8600 rpm's. Just trying to fine tune it for maximum performance without a BBK or any mods that will decrease longevity.

I just sold a Lance PCH 150 and replaced it with a SYM Mio 50 and am happy with the performance. Just like to tweak and optimize it to run it's best. Will throw in some 6 gram Dr. Pulley sliders and likely call it a day.

[90GTVert]

They've admitted that it's smaller, so if they were selling it as a replacement I would hope that eBay or PayPal should allow you to get a refund even if the seller disagrees. Let's say the seller is correct and 20mm of variator diameter makes no difference. Doubt it, but let's just say it's correct anyway. Then it's still kind of like you bought an orange variator and they sent you a pink one and said it's fine because they've screwed over hundreds of people that way and you should be happy with what you got. No. You should get what you order.

All of that said, without seeing what you've ordered it is more difficult to be certain of what you should expect. If they had measurements, then it becomes a bit different story.

Whatever the case may be, I wish you luck. I have dealt with some HORRIBLE sellers that literally wished me harm when asked politely if I could return an item. 99% of my eBay experiences are good and then there are those rare incidents that are miserable and I start to wonder if I ordered from an absolute psychopath.

[badmotorscooter]

Hey Brent, luckily it's only a $38 part so it's not too critical. But it is the principle of the thing, and the seller did not list the measurements of the variator in the description.

He claims it "works very well" but also states the "belt doesn't travel so high on the variator". That's a big contradiction and a completely ridiculous thing to say. This pretty much tells me the kind of person I'm dealing with, so I don't have high hopes of getting a refund.

Anyway the stock variator is performing well so the scooter is running awesome.

[aeroxbud]

Just ask them to exchange it or issue a refund. You can't reason with these people. If they refuse, start a dispute.

[ThomasTPFL]

Aug 6, 2020 14:21:55 GMT -5 tortoise2 said:

Aug 6, 2020 13:57:57 GMT -5 badmotorscooter said:

This leaves me with three options:

1)  I am a retard and have zero mechanical ability.

2)  I am insane.

3)  I was unknowingly transported to a parallel universe where mathematics and geometry are different.

Please comment and pick which of the three options you think it might be so I can attempt to move on and rebuild my shattered life...

Option 4 would be replacing the 50cc scooter with one that is ACTUALLY compatible with your performance expectations, and LEAVING IT STOCK . . sure would save yourself a LOT of aggravation!

Because it's fun going 70mph on a "50cc moped"!!!!!

I have a 96ci Harley and still feel the need to tweak the little bikes to go faster. About to put a 135cc set up in my V90 so it'll seriously be an Italian death machine.

Only bike I'm not fucking with engine wise is my Gilera because it's made of unobtanium and I don't want to have to chase parts when I destroy things. It tops out at at breakneck 28 mph!

[badmotorscooter]

OK, here is my response. I hope the seller can understand this, I tried to keep it non technical.

That is a whopping difference of over 20%. Be it a scooter, motorcycle, or bicycle, the reduction of the front drive sprocket/pulley/variator diameter will increase the rpm's throughout the engine operating parameters (or the pedaling performance where applicable). With the stock parts my SYM Mio 50 (unrestricted) reaches 41 mph at 8500-9000 rpm's where the cdi's rev limiter kicks in. This is an engine rpm limiter for protection, not an additional speed limiter. The smaller diameter variator will drop the top speed at least 20% where it will hit the redline. It will likely not have enough tension to pull the belt to the bottom of the rear pulley further reducing the top speed which will probably fall in the 25-30 mph range? This does not qualify as "works very well".

As of now the variator you sent is brand new and unused. If you wish I will humor you and install it for a test ride. I will document the top speed and performance. When the variator proves to be deficient and not perform properly, will you send me a call tag for a now used part? I suggest just sending a call tag for return while the part is still brand-new unused.

I have owned and worked on more than a dozen scooters, please believe me when I tell you a significantly smaller diameter variator will not work correctly.

If I may, let me suggest that listing the variator dimensions in the product description could prevent future situations like this from occurring.

[badmotorscooter]

OK, here is the guys response. Try not to be overwhelmed with his expertise...

Hi , sprockets and chains have nothing to do with variators, the size does not matter as the belt only goes a certain height on the vari all the extra on the original sym one is wasted , not used, the only difference on the race variator is the ROLLER WAYS are cut out differently and by playing with the roller weights (people say roughly that 6 works best and we have use this weight), (maybe 5.5 6.5 is better with your set up it can't be predicted , so to sum up its just the behaviour of the roller ways on the vari that are altered having a different profile, sold 100s and will sell many more , these don't nessessarily increase top speed just the way it gets up there , so if someone ever quoted more speed etc , this is not correct, mio is the most fiddly to get right as the power output is so low , so playing with slightly different roller weights is very important, you can mix them in 3s to get different weights, check on some forums, but basically this bike and the zoomer 50 are incredibly hard to make faster, even the factory unrestricted mio 50 does just 43MPH . Thanks

This guy is full of sh!t and has no clue what he is talking about. I doubt if he ever touched a SYM Mio 50, despite being a super expert on it's performance and variator specifics. With the plastic ring restriction removed the belt rides up to about 5 or 6mm short of the outer edge of the stock variator. This is obviously well beyond what his "race variator" can do being 20mm smaller in diameter.

He is starting to get under my skin and so I went ahead and installed the variator. Guess what? The engine hit the rev limiter at about 9000 rpms at 31 mph. What a big surprise! Who would have guessed? I mean he "sold hundreds and will sell many more".

My bad! I must have installed it wrong? My SYM Mio 50 is a special edition one of a kind? The laws of geometry are different for my Mio's gearing?

I took pictures of the installation and a comparison of the size difference. Gonna tell him to send a call tag asap and if he doesn't then will start a dispute.

At least when I had the variator apart I did some more tuning, posted the result in "Builds" thread. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/27137/sym-mio-50-tuning

[badmotorscooter]

I sent one more communication to the Taiwan vendor, thought maybe just settling for some Dr. Pulley sliders might work.

He actually agreed! Here's my last message:

First of all a stock unrestricted SYM Mio 50 uses all of the variator except for the last 5 or 6mm. 108mm minus 6 equals 102 mm compared to the 88 mm on your "race variator". Even though a CVT has variable gearing you will still be limited by the maximum front pulley diameter.

I went ahead and installed your variator with 6 gram roller weights (not the 8 gram you sent) and the top speed was 31 mph at 9000 rpm's. This is what I told you would happen! I took photos of the installation. This is the exact same top speed of a SYM Mio 50 with the green restrictor ring in the stock variator. Your description does not say the variator you are selling is restricted to 31 mph. It does not state the variator diameter. Had this been so I would have known not to buy it. Why would anyone buy a "race variator" that reduces performance over a stock unrestricted one? I have to wonder how these hundreds of people you sold the "race variator" to have not complained?

It doesn't seem like you are willing to send a call tag? If that is the case I have a counter offer for you that might save you the cost and hassle.
You already offered to send some 6 gram roller weights, but I already have some. What I need is 5 gram Dr. Pulley slider weights (the same 16 x 13 size).
Yes, I am aware they cost more than regular roller weights. But if you are willing to send these I will just keep the variator (no refund needed) and leave you positive feedback.
Or you can still send I call tag, I will return the variator and no refund is necessary if you supply the slider weights and I will still give you positive feedback.

I realize the cost of the variator is more than just buying some slider weights myself, but I am just trying to make this as painless as possible. My only other recourse is to start a dispute with paypal.

So I paid $38 for some $21 slider weights. But there was a chance I was gonna have to front the return shipping just to get a refund, not worth it.