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Post by jerimaih on Jul 21, 2014 20:15:25 GMT -5
I acquired a basket case 49cc chinese scooter. It runs good now after working on it and replacing some parts. The main electrical part I replaced was the cdi. The battery in it was bad so I have been kick starting it and using the bike with no problem, except the blinkers would not have enough electricity to work although the headlight stays on all the time with no problem. Today I put in a new battery and everything works great except I checked if the battery was charging and it is not. With engine off battery read 12.25v and with engine started and high rpm does not increase. I checked at the back of bike and unplugged the wires coming from the stator. I checked the yellow and the white wire and used the green for ground for the vom meter. At idle both wires read 13-16 vac and at really high rpm 105 vac. Shut motor and I plugged the connector from the stator back in. I pulled the plug in the front on the rectifier and tested the red fused wire coming from the battery and it was 12.25v. Started the scooter and tested the white and yellow wires at rectifier plug and got same readings as the plug at the back of the scooter. I pulled the fuse on the red wire going from the battery to the rectifier plug and plugged the plug back into the rectifier. I took a volt reading on the red wire coming from the rectifier to the fuse and got at idle 5v dc and at very high rpm 9v. Then I changed the meter to 10amps dc and put the test wires between the place where the fuse is removed, on the red wire coming from the rectifier to the battery, and it read 1.4 amps at idle and at high rpm.
I am trying to figure out why I am not getting the 12 to 14 volts dc that should be going to the battery. Can the rectifier go bad so it only sends lower voltage, things I read say that usually if it goes bad the volts get too high? Could it be the stator?? Also.... why are there 2 wires, yellow and white bringing ac voltage from the stator to the rectifier? Any help is appreciated.
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Post by craisin on Jul 22, 2014 1:15:58 GMT -5
I think if the rectifier is shot the AC Voltage goes high Can you borrow a rectifier? thats what i do borrow bits to test
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Post by stevec on Jul 22, 2014 4:33:59 GMT -5
agreed on the rectifier, not likely the fuse or stator.
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Post by jerimaih on Jul 22, 2014 4:52:31 GMT -5
I think if the rectifier is shot the AC Voltage goes high Can you borrow a rectifier? thats what i do borrow bits to test I tested the ac voltage coming from the stator before the rectifier, and tested it at the unplugged plug going to the rectifier. Both those readings on the yellow and white wires were the same but had nothing to do with the rectifier, those were the ac inputs to the rectifier. Is there a way to test the rectifier with a vom meter? I don't have a rectifier to borrow.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 22, 2014 8:30:23 GMT -5
Sounds like the stator is putting out plenty. Rectifiers can fail and not put charging V through. Don't really know how to test the rectifier alone. As long as the wiring is good, when there's power from the stator not making it to the battery replacing the rectifier has always done it for me. You can usually find rectifies quite cheap on eBay.
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Post by craisin on Jul 22, 2014 9:31:06 GMT -5
From what you said you have tested the Rectifier and its not up to it. The AC CDI works and the AC lights workhttp://ww.amazon.com/Yiding-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier-Scooter/dp/B00BVYTMYY the rectifier is cheaper than the Stator and the Magnetic Rotor that appear to be working
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Post by jerimaih on Jul 23, 2014 15:50:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the info.I ordered the rectifier on ebay and should be here Friday. From the picture on ebay it looked identical physically to the 4 wire one I have now and I thought I could just plug the new one in and good to go. I have been reading that sometimes replacement rectifiers are wired differently and it might not be compatable with my scooter plug wiring. So.... what to do to figure this out. If I plug it in and it's not like the old rectifier can I hurt the new rectifier or my scooter. Is there a way to figure out the prongs on the new rectifier? The old rectifier I have now is wired like this: Looking at the rectifier's plug with the plastic nub ( the plastic piece that protrudes out of one side of the plug that is used to lock the scooter's side of the plug in place) on the bottom of plug: top left is Green, Top right is white, Bottom left is yellow, bottom right is red. Another big question I have is about how the ac/dc system actually works together. From what I have read online I understand that the white wire is being fed ac voltage from the stator and so is the yellow wire. With my bad battery, which even when charged was only about 4v, the headlights and tail light and brake light worked, which must have been from the ac being generated. When I tried to use the blinkers I would just get a buzzing noise from the blinker relay because not enough juice to run the blinkers. Now I have a new battery that is slowly running down because it is not charging. I am confused about the dc and ac votage. My headlights, tail and brake lights were working off the ac voltage, but when I look at the bulb it says 12v dc. The same for the all the bulbs on the scooter including the blinkers. Can these bulbs run on ac and dc, and when the bike is at higher rpm isn't the ac voltage much higher than 12volts. Is the ac and dc running through the wires at the same time? Read more: scooterdoc.proboards.com/thread/10512/charging-help-needed-chinese-scooter?page=1&scrollTo=90465#ixzz38KJuYGwT
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 23, 2014 16:21:42 GMT -5
The bulbs will run on AC or DC current. AC can actually be a little easier on the bulbs. That said, it may still be DC voltage running lights and accessories. AC from the stator is changed to DC and the voltage is regulated when it goes through the rectifier/regulator. You should be alright plugging in the rectifier even if the wires aren't in the right config. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/410/testing-4-prong-rectifier
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Post by jerimaih on Jul 23, 2014 17:21:01 GMT -5
The bulbs will run on AC or DC current. AC can actually be a little easier on the bulbs. That said, it may still be DC voltage running lights and accessories. AC from the stator is changed to DC and the voltage is regulated when it goes through the rectifier/regulator. You should be alright plugging in the rectifier even if the wires aren't in the right config. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/410/testing-4-prong-rectifierThis test is to determine the function of the terminals on a 4 prong rectifier. Read more: 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/410/testing-4-prong-rectifier#ixzz38KcBoJLcThis information was provided by stepthrutuner. Ringing out your (bridge) rectifier is very easy to do with your DVM. With your meter set for diode testing, probe all possible combinations across the four pins. The two pins that give the highest readings are the + and -. The pin that your black (ground,common) probe is against is the positive terminal and the red probe is against the negative terminal. The connections to the other two terminals from your stator output(s) can go either way. I have checked this out with a spare bridge rectifier I had on hand and know this to be true. The lower readings should be around 0.4 - 0.6 and that highest reading should be around 0.7 - 1.0v. Hope this helps. It's almost impossible to damage a bridge rectifier by hooking it up wrong. It just won't do what it is supposed to do which is to put out a dc current with an ac ripple on top of the waveform. Thanks for the info and this link to test which prongs are which on the rectifier. I want to make sure I understand the link. The last part I don't understand and need help with so please read below. "With your meter set for diode testing, probe all possible combinations across the four pins"
Does this mean I take the pos test probe and put it on top left prong of the four prong rectifier plug. Then touch the neg test probe to each of the other three prongs while writting down readings. Then I go to the top right prong and do the same thing with the other three prongs. I then do this with the bottom right and bottom left, until I have taken 12 readings. Then I start all over again at the top left prong but this time I use the neg test probe and touch the pos test probe to the other 3 prongs. When I am all done I should have 24 readings, is that correct? The 2 highest readings are + and - (red and green), but you don't know which is which. "The pin that your black (ground,common) probe is against is the positive terminal and the red probe is against the negative terminal."****This part I don't understand how to determine which is + or - ?******
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Post by scooterpimp on Jul 23, 2014 19:45:26 GMT -5
Also be sure battery is charged prior to replacing regulator , sometimes heavy loads will smoke them quickly. Also shorted batteries will fry up a regulator.
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Post by jerimaih on Jul 25, 2014 1:01:01 GMT -5
I am reposting my question at the bottom of this post and would appreciate if anyone could answer it, thanks. The bulbs will run on AC or DC current. AC can actually be a little easier on the bulbs. That said, it may still be DC voltage running lights and accessories. AC from the stator is changed to DC and the voltage is regulated when it goes through the rectifier/regulator. You should be alright plugging in the rectifier even if the wires aren't in the right config. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/410/testing-4-prong-rectifierThis test is to determine the function of the terminals on a 4 prong rectifier. Read more: 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/410/testing-4-prong-rectifier#ixzz38KcBoJLcThis information was provided by stepthrutuner. Ringing out your (bridge) rectifier is very easy to do with your DVM. With your meter set for diode testing, probe all possible combinations across the four pins. The two pins that give the highest readings are the + and -. The pin that your black (ground,common) probe is against is the positive terminal and the red probe is against the negative terminal. The connections to the other two terminals from your stator output(s) can go either way. I have checked this out with a spare bridge rectifier I had on hand and know this to be true. The lower readings should be around 0.4 - 0.6 and that highest reading should be around 0.7 - 1.0v. Hope this helps. It's almost impossible to damage a bridge rectifier by hooking it up wrong. It just won't do what it is supposed to do which is to put out a dc current with an ac ripple on top of the waveform. Thanks for the info and this link to test which prongs are which on the rectifier. I want to make sure I understand the link. The last part I don't understand and need help with so please read below. "With your meter set for diode testing, probe all possible combinations across the four pins"
Does this mean I take the pos test probe and put it on top left prong of the four prong rectifier plug. Then touch the neg test probe to each of the other three prongs while writting down readings. Then I go to the top right prong and do the same thing with the other three prongs. I then do this with the bottom right and bottom left, until I have taken 12 readings. Then I start all over again at the top left prong but this time I use the neg test probe and touch the pos test probe to the other 3 prongs. When I am all done I should have 24 readings, is that correct? The 2 highest readings are + and - (red and green), but you don't know which is which. "The pin that your black (ground,common) probe is against is the positive terminal and the red probe is against the negative terminal."****This part I don't understand how to determine which is + or - ?******
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 26, 2014 7:38:06 GMT -5
You wouldn't have to start all over again, because you'd have each combination by going through once with the probe on each terminal. This would be what you'd get if you went through 1 time as said, and you can see that you'd have each combo.
TL -, TR + TL -, BL + TL -, BR + TR -, TL + TR -, BL + TR -, BR + BL -, TL + BL -, TR + BL -, BR + BR -, TL + BR -, TR + BR -, BL +
To determine which is + or - you are looking at the highest readings you've recorded and wherever the black - probe is on the highest reading is where the + terminal of the rectifier/regulator would be.
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Post by jerimaih on Jul 26, 2014 11:20:05 GMT -5
You wouldn't have to start all over again, because you'd have each combination by going through once with the probe on each terminal. This would be what you'd get if you went through 1 time as said, and you can see that you'd have each combo. TL -, TR + TL -, BL + TL -, BR + TR -, TL + TR -, BL + TR -, BR + BL -, TL + BL -, TR + BL -, BR + BR -, TL + BR -, TR + BR -, BL + To determine which is + or - you are looking at the highest readings you've recorded and wherever the black - probe is on the highest reading is where the + terminal of the rectifier/regulator would be. Thanks for the response, I will test the new rectifier today and install it.
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