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Post by niz76 on Oct 23, 2014 22:05:57 GMT -5
The new bigger torque spring means you'll probably have to go a lil heavier with your roller weights now.
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Post by tsimi on Oct 24, 2014 2:12:43 GMT -5
hmmm....i feel more like going with lighter, maybe 4g rollers...
I had time to drive for about an hour or so today and the rev is lower then it was before the spring swap. Even though i suppose to stay longer in a lower gear because of the stiffer spring and therefore have a bit more rev right? But the opposite is happening. Lower rev and lower top speed. Slower Acceleration, especially from 15 to 40 km/h...
Kinda confused right now....will do some roller swapping and report back again.
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Post by micka80 on Oct 24, 2014 3:50:13 GMT -5
Can not tell from your original post if you changed your exhaust or how many different changes were made, it does sound like you lost your "first" gear but possibly it may be a tuning issue other than the cvt area.
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Post by tsimi on Oct 24, 2014 6:24:50 GMT -5
niz76You were soooo right! Heavier Weights is the key to get back the proper speed after the second gear. micka80Currently I have changed the Exhaust, CDI, Rollers and the Torque spring. And as you mentioned it seems like I lost the first gear and this is what 90GTVert said from the beginning. I know now why I lost torque and acceleration after changing the torque spring. When I took away the Variator I touched the belt and it felt kinda slippery and the pulley behind was also kinda slippery it seems like a bit of the new grease from the clutch touched the belt and that spread it over to the front and rear pulley. Just when I wanted to clean it off my break cleaner run out, great timing!  Anyway, with the few drops i cleaned what I could and changed the roller weights to 3x 5.5g and 3x 6g. That gives me now a very, very nice acceleration once I reached speeds over 15-20 km/h and Hill climbing has improved greatly, the start off the line is still slow though. Tomorrow I will go get some more break cleaner and clean everything one more time and try a 6x 6g setting. One more thing, when looking at the Variator from the side I could see that the belt is approx. 2-2.5 cm above the Hub so it never ever starts in first gear like that. So either I try to use more spacers with the risk too loose the nut when driving or I just keep driving like this until the belt wears down a bit or I go get an old worn belt.
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Post by 2TDave on Oct 24, 2014 6:35:44 GMT -5
Yep, you need to get the belt down on the boss for good acceleration. Spacers should do the trick. Then mark the variator with a sharpie marker from boss to outside edge and check belt travel.
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Post by birdman on Oct 24, 2014 12:50:23 GMT -5
irashaimase ore no tomodachi.
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Post by 54cc on Oct 24, 2014 17:07:43 GMT -5
i messed up what i wrote there, but i meant you can stiffen, THE contra spring, a little on a stock motor. and tune from there to hold off shifting a little bit. ive never seen big drastic changes with contra springs. just little. those are in the clutch.
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Post by tsimi on Oct 24, 2014 18:14:49 GMT -5
irashaimase ore no tomodachi. Ah! Domo, domo korekara yoroshiku onegaishimasu. |
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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 24, 2014 19:15:08 GMT -5
irashaimase ore no tomodachi. Ah! Domo, domo korekara yoroshiku onegaishimasu. Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto? Hai. Thus the extent of my Japanese. I really should start talking to our Japanese customers more often. |
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Post by birdman on Oct 25, 2014 3:16:26 GMT -5
Hai! Arigato! Douzo yoroshiku.  49ccscoot is a great place to be, alot of talented tuners are here sharing thier knowledge... Very happy you could join us. |
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Post by tsimi on Oct 25, 2014 22:51:47 GMT -5
Thanks birdman I'm happy to be here. In this short time I got more info here in this forum then in my entire scooter life time. What would be the best way to get the two Variator halfs more apart so that the belt drops more? Is there a longer boss available? I think stock is 38mm, not sure though. Stock version has one boss and one spacer, can I just add 1-3 more spacers on top of the current one and then put the front pulley on it? So I'm off...need to go buy new break cleaner and do some more roller weight testing today. |
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Post by niz76 on Oct 26, 2014 1:56:10 GMT -5
Thanks birdman I'm happy to be here. In this short time I got more info here in this forum then in my entire scooter life time. What would be the best way to get the two Variator halfs more apart so that the belt drops more? Is there a longer boss available? I think stock is 38mm, not sure though. Stock version has one boss and one spacer, can I just add 1-3 more spacers on top of the current one and then put the front pulley on it? So I'm off...need to go buy new break cleaner and do some more roller weight testing today. Yes, many here add spacers to the boss to get a better takeoff by getting the belt down deeper onto the boss. Another trick is to file the vari faces. This actually accomplishes two things; belt can get down onto the boss and the vari faces can also close together tighter to force the belt further out for better top speed. Here's a link:
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/409/variator-modification-increased-belt-travel I have done both on my vari... Keep in mind that there's only so much belt to go around (pun intended haha) and it's a give-and-take game. To get better top speed you sacrifice takeoff- to get better takeoff you sacrifice top speed etc. There are a few more tricks out there to beat the give-and-take game though  (Over-range Vari's for example) |
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Post by tsimi on Oct 26, 2014 6:36:47 GMT -5
Did some testing today and here are the results. Before Torque Spring change i had this situation: Takeoff: slow (like starting in second gear) Hill climb: weak (not much power, acceleration/speed decrease when going uphill) Top Speed: Very fast 80+km/h Acceleration: fast but not consistent. 0-10/15km/h slow | 10-20km/h fast | 20-40km/h slow | 40-80+km/h fast Now after the spring change and current roller set up 3x5g 3x6g (total:33g) Takeoff: still slow but now i know why (ordered 2 additional stock spacer, arrive Wednesday) Hill climb: powerful (acceleration and speed increase while climbing ) Top Speed: still quite fast (probably still around the 80km/h area) Acceleration: consistent and steady, no drop in power in between. But it feels like i am taking a tiny bit longer to get to speeds over 50km/h but for that i got something that i can't really explain so good by words. Before i had fast acceleration to reach top speed but somehow there was no power feeling now i can feel some sort of power like it is transferring the power better to the ground. Kinda hard to explain....my target is to get good takeoff and hill climb so adding spacers and loose a bit top speed is OK for me. I tested with following roller settings 6x5g = too light and therefore not enough centrifugal force to push the Vario apart and counter the torque spring 3x5g 3x5.5g = same as above still too light 3x5g 3x6g = current setting, feels most best to me. Will see on Wednesday how it behaves with the additional spacers 3x5.5g 3x6g = also not bad at all was not sure if i should go with this or the above setting. 6x6g = a bit too heavy, loss of acceleration speed but good top speed. i haven't tried 6x 5.5g yet (not enough 5.5g rollers around) ...and btw. the Vario gets damn HOT!  after test driving I didn't had the patience to wait until it cooled down. lol niz76 what are good over-range Varios? The only maker here in Japan that i know you guys have too is Malossi. And i think i saw a video somewhere here that shows that the Malossi Vari is a bit big and you need to make some custom adjustments to the case, is that true? What about Polini? When looking at a Vari what should I keep my eyes on, what is important? We have makers like Kitaco, B-Moon Factory, KN, Malossi, Daytona. But I have no clue which one would be good...  Just realized, this is the wrong 2 stroke forum section. This topic should be in the 2 stroke performance area. Sorry about that. |
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Post by niz76 on Oct 26, 2014 10:33:28 GMT -5
Sounds like you're on the right track to CVT tuning! Once you get your brain wrapped around how it works- sounds like you understand it well- it can be fun! I'm not sure what the good OR vari's are, but meny here are quite happy with the Hoca Vari from Partsforscooters (it's a Malossi clone I believe). Not sure where to order from in Japan but this aftermarket vari uses bigger rollers (16x13) and steeper ramps and is a nice upgrade from stock for $50USD. |
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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 26, 2014 11:28:36 GMT -5
Sounds like you're on the right track to CVT tuning! Once you get your brain wrapped around how it works- sounds like you understand it well- it can be fun! I'm not sure what the good OR vari's are, but meny here are quite happy with the Hoca Vari from Partsforscooters (it's a Malossi clone I believe). Not sure where to order from in Japan but this aftermarket vari uses bigger rollers (16x13) and steeper ramps and is a nice upgrade from stock for $50USD. I have that vari on my VX50 and so far I'm pretty happy with it. It works much better than the stock vari! |
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Anyway, with the few drops i cleaned what I could and changed the roller weights to 3x 5.5g and 3x 6g. That gives me now a very, very nice acceleration once I reached speeds over 15-20 km/h and Hill climbing has improved greatly, the start off the line is still slow though. Tomorrow I will go get some more break cleaner and clean everything one more time and try a 6x 6g setting.
(Over-range Vari's for example)