Jog-Mania

[tsimi]

Jan 24, 2016 6:15:41 GMT -5 Lucass2T said:

But the bolts pattern is different from your 5BM engine. It's the standard (3KJ/Old jog) minarelli pattern.

Is there a difference between the old 3KJ and the 5BM engine bolt pattern?
If yes then it might be possible that the intake I ordered won't fit. lol We'll see...

[oldgeek]

Jan 24, 2016 6:21:49 GMT -5 tsimi said:

Jan 24, 2016 6:15:41 GMT -5 Lucass2T said:

But the bolts pattern is different from your 5BM engine. It's the standard (3KJ/Old jog) minarelli pattern.

Is there a difference between the old 3KJ and the 5BM engine bolt pattern?
If yes then it might be possible that the intake I ordered won't fit. lol We'll see...

Yes there is a difference. I dont think you will be able to get the standard intake to fit.

[tsimi]

oldgeek

So you mean all the intakes that are listed on Scooter Online Stores like the Motoforce unrestricted or the Stage6 or in short all these won't fit?
The stock 5BM intake is very narrow/small compare to the unrestricted once.
Funny thing is I used a 5BM intake on my other Jog engine 5SU and it fits.

[oldgeek]

Jan 24, 2016 8:18:55 GMT -5 tsimi said:

oldgeek

So you mean all the intakes that are listed on Scooter Online Stores like the Motoforce unrestricted or the Stage6 or in short all these won't fit?
The stock 5BM intake is very narrow/small compare to the unrestricted once.

Correct, but you can open up the stock 5BM intake a bit as needed.

[tsimi]

Wow, that sucks! Few weeks ago I was thinking of ordering the Stage6 kit, lucky I didn't.
Guess I'll have to use a dremel and open it up then.

[oldgeek]

Possibly yours is a variant of some type? Look close at the second picture HERE and you can see a difference in the bolt pattern spacing of the reed blocks. Standard mina on the left, 5BM on the right.

[tsimi]

Clearly visible. Lot wider.
Too bad, they made fantastic work with trenchig and all but the intake sucks. They could have made it a bit larger.
Thanks for the explanation.

[tsimi]

Found something. Could be interesting since it comes with a reed block with glass fiber reeds.

page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x429968465?u=%3bellekin2007

I could swear that looks like my reed block that I bought recently just including the intake.

[tsimi]

Phew! Could cancel the intake order, lucky. Last minute thing. Let's call it a free lesson well learned.

[tsimi]

Installed the 2T AU bushing and atomizer, straight forward stuff no issues.
Put back the 40 pilot jet and 98 main jet.
Now before I put back the carb I thought I might as well install the reed block. Do I have to change jets when upgrading the reed block?

[oldgeek]

You should be ok where you are for now.

I am interested in seeing how it revs for you with the new reed block. I cant get my Vino to rev above 9500, I think because of the reed block, or it could be limited by the cylinder durations.

[tsimi]

oldgeek

Thanks!
I don't know why your Vino won't rev past 9500 but I have no problems to go even a little past 10000rpms if I lighten the rollers enough. I just don't keep such a setting because I am worry about the stock crank. I doubt it might keep stand 10000rpms for a long time.

I changed the Variator and now I have max 9000-9400rpms and it runs good.
I am also curious to see what will happen when I swap the reed block. I just need to tune the carb again from scratch due to new bushing and atomizer so I thought I might as well do that with the new reed block installed. I will try to install it tomorrow and go for a test run. I keep you posted...

[Lucass2T]

Jan 30, 2016 5:32:33 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

You should be ok where you are for now.

I am interested in seeing how it revs for you with the new reed block. I cant get my Vino to rev above 9500, I think because of the reed block, or it could be limited by the cylinder durations.

Probably your exhaust...thats the most important part when it comes to powerband.
Durations play lesser part in this.

About reeds, the petal thickness has the biggest influence. Thicnkess and fiber weaving direction (horizontal, vertical or diagonal woven). I have diagonally woven 0,25mm thick carbon petals and they work okay for my setup (axis). 

Thick petals will start floating in higher revs...same as with 4pokes with valve springs.
Thicker petals require higher vacuum to open but start floating at higher revs.

[tsimi]

The glass fiber petals are thicker then my stock reed petals so I guess the reed block will perform better at the top-range then?
I have no idea what to expect from an after market reed block so looking very much forward to it.
If it is nothing for my current setup I might use it in my next build which has a bit more power then what I have currently.

Aftermarket Reed Valves

Like large-bore carburetors, bigger reed valves with large flow area work best for high-rpm powerbands. In general, reed valves with six or more petals are used for high-rpm engines. Reed valves with four petals are used for dirt bikes that need strong low-end and midrange power. Three other factors must be considered when choosing a reed valve: the angle of the reed valve, the type of reed material, and the petal thickness. The two common reed valve angles are 30 and 45 degrees. The 30-degree valve is designed for low-end to midrange power and the 45-degree valve is designed for high-rpm power. Two types of reed-petal materials are commonly used, carbon fiber and fiberglass. Carbon fiber reeds are lightweight but relatively stiff (spring tension) and are designed to resist fluttering at high rpm. Fiberglass reeds have relatively low spring tension so they instantly respond to pressure changes in the crankcase; however, the low spring tension makes them flutter at high rpm, thereby limiting the amount of power. Fiberglass reed petals are good for low-end to midrange powerbands, and carbon fiber reeds are better for high-rpm engines. Regarding longevity, the fiberglass reeds tend to split whereas the carbon fiber reeds tend to chip.

[tsimi]

Today I did some stuff on the Scooter.
- Reverted the CVT to near stock condition for better carb tuning.
- Installed the Big reed block
- Put back the carb with the installed AU stuff.
- Installed performance filter sponge.

Previous I had the AN stuff inside the carb and the following setting:

Pilot Jet: 38
Main Jet: 95
Needle position 2nd from top

With that setting I couldn't tune the mixture screw at all.
With the AU stuff and the performance filter sponge I thought that I would run lean and therefore I have to go a bit larger on the Jets. So I started with following setup:

Pilot Jet: 40
Main Jet: 98
Needle position: 2nd from top

I totally misinterpreted the Scooters behavior at first. I was raising the Jets until 102 when I realized that the Scooter was running way too rich and not lean. I even thought that the big reed block might be leaking.
Now with my old setting that I had with the AN stuff Pilot 38, Main 95 the Scooter still runs waaaay too rich. That is very confusing since I was expecting that the Scooter will run leaner with all the new stuff but the opposite is happening.

I will need to lower the Pilot Jet to a 35 and the Main Jet to something like 92 and even then it might run too rich.

I cannot even tell how the big reed block performs because right now all runs like shit.
Max rpm was 7200 top speed was 50km/h that if I could get the speedo needle to go over 45km/h.
Uphill? No chance, just sputtering all the way.

It looks like I will have to spend more time and trial.