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Post by Raizer on Jan 29, 2016 17:25:57 GMT -5
huh, a Suzuki scooter... whadaya know.  p.s. Such a nice looking exhaust system. Where do you order your performance items from? Lol yeah they don't seem as common as the Yamahas and other brands on here, but in New Zealand there is a LOT of Suzuki scoots around! Probably still more Jogs on the road though. I've always had a soft spot for Suzuki scooters for some reason, my first ever scooter was a Suzuki FA50 like this  But matte black, no carrier or mudguards and I'd added air horns haha My pipe came from Racing Planet in Germany, worked out to be the cheapest I could find anywhere and they gave me great service, but DHL really dropped the ball with the shipping!! Going to go try and lighten my rollers another .5g and see if I can get it into it's powerband! |
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Post by spaz12 on Jan 29, 2016 17:30:05 GMT -5
That'd be cool to have one of those ^^^ and make it do mad wheelies |
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Post by Senna1Rossi on Jan 29, 2016 17:38:13 GMT -5
Cute little moped that. haha.
So, you live in NZ, huh? Noice!
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Post by Raizer on Jan 29, 2016 18:41:46 GMT -5
Am kinda tempted to pick another one up and try fit a late model variatored engine...
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Post by Raizer on Jan 29, 2016 21:11:30 GMT -5
Am starting to struggle a bit with tuning this thing!
Taken more weight off the rollers twice today and it seems to be starting to get into the power band but it's still got rather slow acceleration.
The weights are now 3x 3.51G and 3x 4.02G and the revs are getting into the low 8000rpm range, I think I'm going to need to go down to at least 3.5G all around, does that sound right?
Also really having a hard time finding the right main jet!
Have adjusted the idle mix to the best it will go and lifted the needle a notch to enrich the mid throttle.
But it sounds off at WOT, thought it was starting to 4 stroke but the revs hang coming off throttle as if it's lean.
I don't think my opened up airbox is doing me any favors here though!
Any tips would be much appreciated
Vid/pics later.
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Post by tsimi on Jan 29, 2016 22:46:37 GMT -5
First off, you are a brave man for taking on a Suzuki scooter. There are not many tuning parts for Suzuki as there are for Yamahas or Hondas and it takes a lot of patiance to gather the parts and DIY skills are necessary.
But the Suzukis are very fast even in their stock condition. Straight groove torque driver and good small carb do a great Job.
My local bike shop guy drives a Suzuki Verde with 70cc, red racing CDI, stock pipe only and beats my Jog at take off and mid-range.
Regarding your problem you have an after market pipe and an open airbox? That makes tuning a bit more tricky. First I would try to get the carburetor tuned right then look for CVT tuning.
Try larger main jets and go from there. You can feel or even hear it when it runs rich, and better too rich than too lean.
Look at the spark plug between runs to see how rich you are running and adjust the main jet accordingly.
Once you found the right main jet at WOT tune the low and mid range. Once you got the carb right start with your CVT.
Be prepared for a lot of trial and error.
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Post by Raizer on Jan 30, 2016 1:06:28 GMT -5
I remembered this morning that I have the engine off the Sepia ZZ, pulled the clutch off it to find it's a 3 shoe the same diameter as my other one, it also has the smaller springs in it and as luck would have it someone had already fitted heavier springs!  That that contra is also heavier than any of the others I've got and all that surface rust cleaned off easy as. So I combined bits of this and the other clutch and put it on, the 2 shoe one was showing signs of slipping and very bad contact patches. This one engages about 5500rpm. First off, you are a brave man for taking on a Suzuki scooter. There are not many tuning parts for Suzuki as there are for Yamahas or Hondas and it takes a lot of patiance to gather the parts and DIY skills are necessary. But the Suzukis are very fast even in their stock condition. Straight groove torque driver and good small carb do a great Job. My local bike shop guy drives a Suzuki Verde with 70cc, red racing CDI, stock pipe only and beats my Jog at take off and mid-range. You don't need to tell me how much of a pain it is to find bits!! I've almost PM'd you a couple times about parts in Japan as they seem to be around from a couple places, I've found Webike has a lot of bits, but there shipping prices are excessive IMO! I was getting fairly decent take off and that 77k top speed with nothing more than a Chamelon factory over range variator and no other mods, so hopefully once I getting tuning sorted this Tecnigas will give a decent improvement! Regarding your problem you have an after market pipe and an open airbox? That makes tuning a bit more tricky. First I would try to get the carburetor tuned right then look for CVT tuning. Try larger main jets and go from there. You can feel or even hear it when it runs rich, and better too rich than too lean. Look at the spark plug between runs to see how rich you are running and adjust the main jet accordingly. Once you found the right main jet at WOT tune the low and mid range. Once you got the carb right start with your CVT. Be prepared for a lot of trial and error. This is how the airbox was opened up  So after my last post I cut a piece of the same grade plastic from another old Suzuki airbox, drilled a 20mm hole in it then plastic welded it in  I think the stock hole was a bit bigger though, thinking of buying another stock airbox I've found on a local auction site if I can't get it turned right with this one. At this point I had a 85 main jet in it (stock is 72), plug chop  I thought rich, also thought that plug was well over due for replacement so grabbed a nice new BPR6HS and swapped it down to an 80 main jet. Suzuki's flanged carb manifold is a pain to swap jets with, but I've done it so many times now it's a 10 minute job lol  I think it was still 4 stroking and running pretty gutless so I ended up putting the stock 72 back in. Tried to get video but it's pretty much just wind noise except for this little bit, does this sound like 4 stroking/rich? I know it's hard to hear in the vid but the noise is louder in person WOT plug chop with stock jet  Different light  Pipe is getting a lot darker finish  At this point I've given up for the day, it's got less power and speed across the whole range than it did with the stock exhaust and I'm not sure what to do next? I do think going to all 3.5g rollers may at least help with acceleration. |
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Post by tsimi on Jan 30, 2016 2:32:17 GMT -5
Believe me you won't find more parts here either. Quite the opposite, you might find more tuning parts in foreign countries. Try to search for a BBK or pipe here.
Expensive shipping? I am THE victim of expensive shipping. Need a $6 part pay $30-50 shipping! Shipping for an exhaust, $70!! That is why I mostly order things that are on sale so that I can get even to the original price or I bulk order, adding parts that I might not need right now but later on. The US boys say, "hey the item is on sale I save $30!" i say "hey the item is on sale that covers my shipping!"
I am not familiar with the technigas products but it might be possible that your Scooter in its present condition might not be able to reach that pipes necessary powerband. Maybe if you add a BBK in the future the pipe might be of better use.
If you find some parts here and you want to have them shipped over just tell me but I tell you shipping ain't cheap. I could give you a quote though if needed.
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Post by spaz12 on Jan 30, 2016 2:33:44 GMT -5
I think when it comes to tuning a new setup you really can't be on a budget with jets. You need a lot of them. I mean you can sorta guess what range you might need and then go a few above and below your guess - then everything in between those. It seems to me that you are using jets that have big differences in them, when you should be going down one step at a time. Gotta spend money on jets.
When showing pics of your plugs show more of the insulator. From that picture it looks lean. Also, what's up with the BPR6 plug? Does your cylinder call for that heat range? That's a hot.
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Post by tsimi on Jan 30, 2016 2:37:05 GMT -5
Yeah, BPR6HS is hot, maybe try BPR7HS or BR7HS and when you add a BBK in the future BPR8HS or BR8HS.
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Post by Raizer on Jan 30, 2016 3:17:54 GMT -5
I've got 68, 72, 75, 78, 80, 82, 85, 88, 90, 92, 95, 98, 100, 102, 105 main jets here, was taking a couple bigger steps down as I'd tried to get it rich with bigger jets when the airbox was still opened up. I agree that the plug looks lean, but since I thought it was 4 stroking I thought it was rich, which is where I'm getting confused!!  The plug is something I'd actually been meaning to ask about on here for a while as I knew it was a fairy hot plug rating, but both the AZ50 and this Let's came with BPR6HS plugs in them so I assumed it must just be the right plug. |
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Post by Raizer on Jan 30, 2016 4:30:37 GMT -5
I am not familiar with the technigas products but it might be possible that your Scooter in its present condition might not be able to reach that pipes necessary powerband. Maybe if you add a BBK in the future the pipe might be of better use. The old owner of the AZ50 used to have a Street Magic (same engine/carb) with the same pipe I've got. Looking at his old thread on my car club forum he had an aftermarket variator, heavier clutch springs that engaged at about the same RPM as mine and only ended up going up 1 to 2 jet sizes. He never posted what weight rollers it ended up with, but his description of how it accelerated with 6g rollers before going to "much lighter" rollers sounds just like what mines doing, struggling to get the RPM up enough to hit the pipe then wanting to take off but getting bogged down by the gear ratio as the variator has already fully shifted. Can't figure out why mine seems to like such light weights though, even with the stock pipe it seemed right with 5.5g rollers, might be the variator design though? I think my game plan for tomorrow is install a 7 heat range plug, up jet it to the point I know 100% it's rich/4 stroking then work my way down in jet size again without skipping sizes. Edit: Have found a factory parts manual online, the factory listed plug is showing as a DENSO W20FPR-U, which cross references with the BPR6HS that I've been running. BPR6HS is what I'm finding listed online for the Street Magic and several TGBs too, maybe Morini's like a hotter plug than Minarelli engines?? |
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Post by tsimi on Jan 30, 2016 5:06:25 GMT -5
Sounds like a very good plan. I wish you luck and hope you get closer to your goal. Btw. here comparison images of a BPR8HS and BR8HS plug. (left BR8HS and right BPR8HS)   |
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Post by Raizer on Jan 30, 2016 6:07:43 GMT -5
Sorry for blahing on, but I've been reading all I can find tonight on my pipe and tuning etc.
Have found dyno readings for the Next-R pipe on a stock 50cc Piaggio as well as a TGB, both peaked at just over 8600rpm, mine is barely getting over 8200 at which point it is really sounding like it's just coming into power band.
I've been marking my variator with sharpie every time I change the rollers or main jet and have noticed that even with the 3.5g and 4g roller mix the belt has been getting right to the top of the variator before it's reached 8000rpm/started coming on pipe.
Don't know how much that effects the jetting though, I'm probably way off but in my mind if the variator is stopping it from getting up into it's powerband a bigger main jet isn't going to help much as the engine isn't able to rev high enough to use much extra fuel?
Minarelli guys seem to end up running with 4 to 4.5g rollers in there stock variators with this pipe and as my Chameleon factory variator worked best with rather light rollers on my stock engine maybe it just works best really light.
Not sure if you saw my edit up there, but it seems like the BPR6HS (or the Denso equivalent) is the correct plug, it's what I'm finding for Street Magics and some TGB scooters too, will still try the 7 range though as that's what the older Suzuki engines used too.
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Post by spaz12 on Jan 30, 2016 15:30:02 GMT -5
Ahh, that's good that you have all those jet's. My bad for assuming that you didn't. But so often I'll hear " I have an 85 jet and this 115 and I just can't get it tuned, what's wrong?" Crazy. I understand you wanting to get the cvt sorted, but it's actually helpful to have a load (higher "gear") when tuning a carburetor and checking plugs. Besides, you don't want to be running around tuning your cvt with a lean motor. It might not end well. Get that carb sorted then your cvt |
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