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Post by oldgeek on Oct 10, 2015 22:24:51 GMT -5
I have been looking at up gearing for a while now, since it is likely what will help me get to my 60+ mph goal. I ordered both Stage 6 primary and secondary gear sets so I could hopefully understand the gearing choices possible using them.
The S6 15/50 primaries set comes with a primary shaft and a 50 tooth intermediate gear assembled to a 13 tooth.
The S6 15/42 secondary set comes with a secondary output shaft and a 52 tooth intermediate gear assembled to a 15 tooth.
From what I can tell if I am looking at them correctly the stage 6 gears are meant to be used along WITH the stock gears. In other words, you can use S6 primaries with stock secondaries OR stock primaries with S6 secondaries, but you cannot use the s6 primaries with the S6 secondaries*
The stock primaries I have are 13/52=4, and the stock secondaries are 13/44=3.3846153846 giving me a final of 13.538461538
Stock primaries 13/52=4 used with S6 secondaries 15/42=2.8 gives you 11.2 final
S6 primaries 15/50=3.3333333333 used with stock secondaries 13/44=3.3846153846 gives you 11.282051281 final
If you try to use the S6 primaries with the S6 secondaries, the tooth count is off and they wont fit correctly. *But if I am measuring correctly you should be able to press the S6 intermediate gear assemblies apart and reassemble them swapped with each other, using the 15 tooth intermediate gear shaft from the S6 secondary set with the 50 tooth intermediate gear from the S6 primary set. Both intermediate shafts in the S6 sets are the same diameter, so they should swap without much problem.
Using both S6 sets after swapping the intermediate parts would put you at 9.3333333332 final.
Does anyone know if this is correct? Math is a poor subject for me, and this type of stuff is very confusing for me to try and work out.
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 10, 2015 22:44:29 GMT -5
I'm clueless. But I'm glad that you're trying to do the testing for the rest of us!  |
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Post by oldgeek on Oct 10, 2015 23:11:49 GMT -5
I'm clueless. But I'm glad that you're trying to do the testing for the rest of us! What do you care, your a Zuma guy!  |
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 11, 2015 16:12:11 GMT -5
Yeah, but I can actually change out the primary and secondaries on my Aerox motor, which I haven't even bothered to look at since I've had it. Anyway, I'm rooting for ya and watching how you come along with this |
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Post by iwiketuddlz on Oct 11, 2015 19:15:51 GMT -5
Yeah, but I can actually change out the primary and secondaries on my Aerox motor, which I haven't even bothered to look at since I've had it. Anyway, I'm rooting for ya and watching how you come along with this Um dude...... What's the ratio to that there AeroX motor you got there in that badass pic good sir.  |
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 11, 2015 19:18:26 GMT -5
I'll look at it for ya later. I'll have to throw a clutch on there to make it easier to tell. Gotta run for food right now though.
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Post by 190mech on Oct 11, 2015 19:23:05 GMT -5
I didnt check your math,but a 9.3 is a tall gear for 12" wheels,I always felt a 10 to 1 is a bit tall for 90+ motors.Have seen waay taller gears in them though..Keep us posted!
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Post by oldgeek on Oct 11, 2015 20:52:22 GMT -5
I didnt check your math,but a 9.3 is a tall gear for 12" wheels,I always felt a 10 to 1 is a bit tall for 90+ motors.Have seen waay taller gears in them though..Keep us posted! You make a great point about the 12" wheels. I keep thinking about the honda elite with the AF16/18 motors, and the extensive drop in gear choices they have, but they are on 10" wheels. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 12, 2015 9:51:18 GMT -5
The math looks right to me. 9.3 may not be that bad. I usually have 10.13s in my strokers. They do pretty well, but I think some of them would have the power to pull more MPH with different gears. My current setup, while not great, runs out of steam at 8500RPM. With the CVT (OR vari, OR belt, stock or straight groove stock size rear pulley) that puts be in the low to mid 50MPH range before it's revving beyond it's powerband. 9.3s could be good if the setup is like that. If you have something that revs a bit higher, I'm not sure. Depends just how strong it is and just how high it revs. With the 103cc and Peace Pipe along with an OR CVT I was doing 70MPH at about 10500RPM or 70MPH at more like 12000RPM without the OR using 10.13s. It may have ran out of steam with soemthing like the 9.3:1s trying to pull a big guy against the increased resistance at that speed. Not really sure.
I tried to order the gears to make 11.25:1 gearing just after my gear oil fail to see what they were like. I assumed not ideal for max speed, but perhaps more front wheel lifting fun than the stock 10.13s. They were out of stock though and I just cancelled the order.
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Post by oldgeek on Oct 12, 2015 13:06:45 GMT -5
The math looks right to me. 9.3 may not be that bad. I usually have 10.13s in my strokers. They do pretty well, but I think some of them would have the power to pull more MPH with different gears. My current setup, while not great, runs out of steam at 8500RPM. With the CVT (OR vari, OR belt, stock or straight groove stock size rear pulley) that puts be in the low to mid 50MPH range before it's revving beyond it's powerband. 9.3s could be good if the setup is like that. If you have something that revs a bit higher, I'm not sure. Depends just how strong it is and just how high it revs. With the 103cc and Peace Pipe along with an OR CVT I was doing 70MPH at about 10500RPM or 70MPH at more like 12000RPM without the OR using 10.13s. It may have ran out of steam with soemthing like the 9.3:1s trying to pull a big guy against the increased resistance at that speed. Not really sure. I tried to order the gears to make 11.25:1 gearing just after my gear oil fail to see what they were like. I assumed not ideal for max speed, but perhaps more front wheel lifting fun than the stock 10.13s. They were out of stock though and I just cancelled the order. I was planning on using the 9.3:1s with a 70cc setup, the only 100cc I have is a non running short case ATM. Do you think the 9.3s will pull ok on a midrace range 70cc? Also I have been thinking about the over range CVT stuff again. The consensus is that to reap the full benefits of an OR, it should be used on a high revving motor. What do you think the minimum RPMs need to be in order to fully utilize the OR stuff? |
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 12, 2015 13:24:11 GMT -5
With the RPM that a midrace setup should see, the 11.25:1 setup should be pretty comfortably seeing 60MPH+. Still a nice jump from 13.5:1. Not sure if 9.3:1 will be ideal or not for midrace stuff. I've never really gone beyond sport 70cc stuff with a little porting and sport exhausts like the MRP or Leo Vince ZX.
I have the OR variator on my mild 8500RPM max engine right now and used it on engines like it for quite a few miles, with the whole kit till I messed up the rear pulley. I like it. My biggest issue with it is that I can't buy weights that work. I have to fill them with solder or at least foil to make them heavy enough. Prob wouldn't be an issue with something like a 70cc sport, since the big engines should have more torque. It does seem like the variator likes to jump up to RPM beyond the lowest that a mild engine can work in even with a little heavier weights than are ideal for overall performance... but that may just be the variator's ability to do it's job and keep RPM in a narrow range. If it were so bad, I wouldn't have Hoca variators sitting around while I use the Malossi OR. The variator is a great piece that I trust. I would have killed a few other variators by now or at least went through a lot of broken bushings in the service life the OR has given me so far. Maybe it's not the perfect part for a mild engine, but I'd take it over the other options I've tried.
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Post by 190mech on Oct 12, 2015 19:05:43 GMT -5
Brent,Robert,and I talked of this gearing numbers game a few years back,The 10.x to 1 makes for a weak take off and is sensitive to weather and grades,the 13.x to 1 is too strong on starts and peters out on the top end,,soo an 11 or so to 1 was our target ideal gearing for 12" wheels..Never got to test the theory,but thats what us ol' country boys thought would be the bestest of all..
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Post by moofus02 on Oct 12, 2015 19:23:50 GMT -5
Brent,Robert,and I talked of this gearing numbers game a few years back,The 10.x to 1 makes for a weak take off and is sensitive to weather and grades,the 13.x to 1 is too strong on starts and peters out on the top end,,soo an 11 or so to 1 was our target ideal gearing for 12" wheels..Never got to test the theory,but thats what us ol' country boys thought would be the bestest of all.. I don't doubt you guys but I haven't tried the 11:1 gears yet in my Zuma (I'm lazy lol) Zuma has 13.25 the Eton comes in with 13.54 and my triton clones have the 10:1. The Zuma has a zx pipe but all 4 are still 50cc at the moment. The Eton runs (all speed real)about 35 the triton clones about 38 and the Zuma 43. The Zuma has a straight groove td the others dual angle groove td. Depending on the motor I've got gears from the mid 8:1 to 13.54. With the zx pipe on the Zuma I'm gear limited and am sure that 11:1 would make a huge difference. Between the triton and Eton I like the tall gears in the triton much better even with the stock motors. Depending on the rpm habits of a built motor and straight groove td my opinions will probably change lol. I've got motor options from 50 to 106cc so I'm sure I will find out |
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Post by oldgeek on Oct 13, 2015 10:04:33 GMT -5
I think I am going to give the 9.3s a try as I rebuild my 70cc street race. I am hoping the overrange will offset the potentially slow launch a bit and the fact that it's relatively flat land here may make it more bearable. I am also thinking about going with lower durations this time around and use the GP pipe.
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Post by iwiketuddlz on Oct 13, 2015 10:13:29 GMT -5
Mine is 11:1 and it will pull wheelies with EZ and go approximately 80mph @ 15k......just as a reference
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