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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 25, 2016 21:30:19 GMT -5
Since I can't really tell what the CDI is doing on this scoot, I figured I'd try the old fashioned method; install it and see if I can tell a difference. I set it all the way counterclockwise, because idle RPM increased with it there so I assumed that was the point of max advance. It's either the max advance or it's moving the RPM when advance occurs. Photobucket is down ATM so the pic won't show up, but it'll appear later. I took a vid so you can see the change at idle.  I rode for about 30 minutes and I can't really tell any difference in speed. This was my first night ride since the dual headlight mod. The dual low beams work very well. Not the best lights I've had on a scoot, but way better than before. I would have no complaints if the housings would let the light spread just a little wider for better peripheral vision. The dual high beams suck, but I think that's the bulbs. They're 35W/35W Philips bulbs. Different bulbs will likely have a better high beam pattern, so I'll see what else I have to plug in some night. |
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Post by cwazywazy on Apr 26, 2016 6:23:43 GMT -5
When I turned mine all the way clockwise it moved the advance to just barely above my idle speed so my engine would die when I hit the gas from being advanced so quickly. All the way clockwise and it would be at idle timing until the engine was screaming at 8k+.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 26, 2016 11:56:40 GMT -5
The TaoTao had to take on test duty for this CDI since the timing light won't cooperate on the Roketa. The neighbors probably didn't mind not hearing the chambered muffler revved for an hour. It bugged me not knowing what the CDI does with more certainty, even if it didn't give me any more speed.  Here's the Roketa's stock "Zonko" CDI.  As cwazywazy said, the dial on the Kitaco CDI does change when advance happens. It also makes a bit of a change to idle advance.  Since it's tougher to read on charts, the Zonko CDI climbed from 14° BTDC at 1500RPM to full advance of 28° by 4000RPM, or 14° over 2500RPM. The mildest setting of the Kitaco CDI was all the way clockwise. There, it stayed at 12.5° until it started advancing around 6000RPM and climbed to a peak of 27.5° by 7000RPM. In the center, the Kitaco stayed at 14° till just after 2500RPM and advanced to 28.5° by 4000RPM. The most aggressive setting, counterclockwise, started at 17.5° at 1500RPM and rose to 28.5° by 2500RPM. The clockwise setting of the Kitaco may reach the same advance as the other settings, but I think my timing light may lag at high revs. I've seen that behavior when doing other CDI tests. I never actually checked the first settings all the way to 7000RPM because just revving and watching I could see that timing wasn't really changing. It's pretty clear why I saw no gains at speed with the CDI, since there's only about 0.5° difference in stock and it's full advance. I thought it felt a little peppier at low throttle, but really didn't spend much time there and wasn't certain. It probably was, based on the timing numbers. I should note, this is what it's doing on the TaoTao. I suspect it is very similar on the Roketa, because both have the pickups modified and moved to the max advance that they allow, which is usually 2-3°. In case anyone wants to compare, here is the chart from Project TaoTao when I checked it's stock CDI vs Scrappy's blue and orange CDIs. At least this Kitaco does indeed have a curve, rather than a pretty much flat line.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 26, 2016 15:43:56 GMT -5
I put the Kitaco CDI back in, just slightly off the earliest advance setting so it won't advance at starting speed. It won't fit where the stock CDI was, so I zip tied it to the decorative vent on the body panel. Air cooling a purple CDI has to be worth something.   |
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Post by niz76 on Apr 26, 2016 17:14:46 GMT -5
Oh yeah add some led lights in there to show it off= +2HP!!
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Post by cwazywazy on Apr 26, 2016 19:23:44 GMT -5
Which adds more power, red paint or purple paint?
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 26, 2016 19:25:59 GMT -5
I say purple... It also makes your axle nuts apear bigger!
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Post by 190mech on Apr 26, 2016 19:36:38 GMT -5
The stock CDI box has a good curve!!!(would like to see 36 degrees though),too bad the stator isnt adjustable,Guess redrilling the mounting holes or restabbing the flywheel with no key would be the low buck options...
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 26, 2016 20:51:35 GMT -5
Not too sure about re-drilling.  I was thinking about clocking the flywheel 7-8 degrees advanced, but have not been motivated to get a degree wheel on it again yet. I wonder if there is a CDI out there somewhere that advances steadily till the torque peak and then levels off? Oh well. That's a pipe dream, because I'm not spending a bunch of money on CDIs in hopes of finding one. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 26, 2016 23:06:42 GMT -5
I rode just shy of 40 miles tonight. WOT or near it mostly, running over 400F CHT while WOT. I think about 421F was the max I recall seeing, but I forgot to check max on the gauge. I took it out on a highway for about 3 miles. That kinda sucks. There was a little wind so I was tucking down and not even getting to the 55MPH speed limit. I did fill it up at a pump for the first time to check fuel economy; 57.9MPG.
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Post by 190mech on Apr 27, 2016 5:28:50 GMT -5
Without a timing light working on the 150,there is no way of knowing where the spark really is..Bumping the curve up will likely increase CHT also and its pretty warm now..
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 27, 2016 6:34:52 GMT -5
I thought about both of those things. The two super bright temp warning lights that stay on because I can't set them any higher on the Vapor won't let me forget the temp issue. I don't know how much I can do about it. It doesn't seem like a 10.5:1 155cc with 2-3 degrees of advance should be maxing out cooling capabilities. The TaoTao will run up to 400F in the summer too though, and it's essentially stock, but it does get ran much harder at WOT pretty much all of the time.
I could jet it richer, but then I lose a little power and I have none to spare for what I want it to do. With the jet just before it almost died out at WOT from being so rich only showed 11 degrees cooler on a 3 mile WOT run. Maybe it would make more of a difference on a long stretch, but the next jet up was a 6 degree drop.
The other option is to improve air cooling. Maybe it would make some tiny difference cutting the guards off of the inlet to the shrouds. I could get a cooling fan scoop that may give me a few degrees lower temps while cruising. I'd probably buy one, because I think commonly available PVC elbows stop at 4" and that's smaller than the diameter of the opening in the shrouds. I remember years ago there was argument that the cooling scoop made with 4" did no good because of this.
I don't know if the turbo fans do good or bad for cooling on these. It's not like the Minarelli where I can use a 90cc fan on a 50 to get a big fan. They just change the blade design a little.
I'm just assuming timing would be close since the 50 and 150 use the same iggy parts other than the flywheel, but the flywheel could have the reluctor in a different spot. I guess I could get a degree wheel on both and see how many degrees after the TDC mark the relcutor's edge reaches the timing pointer. I'd think that would give about as good of an idea as I'd get to if the timing is the same or what it is.
A better variator still sticks out in my mind as a possibility for a little better performance without pushing the engine more. Some people also switch to a 7mm longer 842mm belt. I just haven't resigned myself to spending the money on a decent vari like a DrPulley and another belt yet.
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Post by Fox on Apr 27, 2016 16:33:17 GMT -5
Just read the entire thread and I gotta say it's impressive all you have done to it. I have to wonder what an up-gear kit may accomplish but my gut feeling is that it prolly won't make a huge difference. On the brake line mod, I'm wondering if simply negating the factory ABS unit would have solved the issue for $0 but that's moot now. I saw this thing years ago but I don't know who makes it or where to get one. totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=116&t=80070 |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 27, 2016 18:24:07 GMT -5
I have to wonder what an up-gear kit may accomplish but my gut feeling is that it prolly won't make a huge difference. I don't think I have the power for much of a change, if any. If I were able to keep a stable speed even with a little negative influence (headwind, incline), then I'd be looking at gear ratios. As it stands, my speedometer is aware of it when there's more than a calm wind or flat ground. It doesn't take off that hard either. Not terrible, but when pulling out in front of 50MPH traffic I don't feel like I need any less. I saw this thing years ago but I don't know who makes it or where to get one. Nice find there! If I could read my timing, a setup like that would make it real easy to dial in. I actually like the convenience of a woodruff key, call me lazy if you'd like... it's just easy to work on one when you don't have to line everything up precisely. I'm gonna look around at advance keys I think. I doubt I'll get lucky enough to find something that does what I want. If I could find a 10 degree key though, I could put the pickup back in stock position and that should back out 2-3 degrees and get it real close to 35 degrees or so max and allow me to swap a stator or work on the engine without fiddling with ignition timing every time. Haven't so much as done a search just yet though, so I have no clue what's around or if they want reasonable prices. This was under the scoot today.  It was dripping from the CVT cover. All I could think was, "Not another TaoTao".  I removed the cover, but couldn't tell for sure where the oil was coming from.   I cleaned it up and replaced the o-ring on the cam chain guide bolt with one from a shop assortment. I'm crossing my fingers that it was the issue so I don't have to go pulling a kickstart gear to replace a seal.  Then I cut the guard out of the fan shroud to open it up some.   Cooling scoops are on eBay so cheap that I went ahead and ordered one. You can get them for $8 if you wanna wait for China.  BTW, these are ridiculous, and one appears to make the inlet a good bit smaller : www.drowsports.com/drowsports-gy6-carbon-fiber-ram-air-cooling-scoop/www.ebay.com/itm/Password-JDM-Ruckus-Zoomer-Dry-Carbon-Air-Scoop-GY6-/131650296386www.ebay.com/itm/Password-JDM-Ruckus-Zoomer-Dry-Kevlar-Air-Scoop-GY6-/121812843771 |
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Post by Fox on Apr 27, 2016 18:47:18 GMT -5
I assume you are running an 842 belt. The 150 longs will accept an 835. You may see an increase in top end if the 842 isn't burying all the way into the rear pulley. You can bench run a 150 with the cover off but you gotta make sure the kicker gears don't wiggle out cause it will shear off the guide rails on the variator. Testing with no load on the works is deceiving anyway but it's a good way to find that oil leak.
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It was dripping from the CVT cover. All I could think was, "Not another TaoTao".
