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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 23, 2016 13:47:39 GMT -5
I swiveled the header out a little, so the muffler would sit 3/16"-1/4" away from the bracket that connects to the axle instead of touching it. I kept the 2nd support that I cut off of the bracket initially, so I welded it back on where it's useful. I cut the old mounting tab off of the muffler and made 2 new mounting tabs. The tabs don't look the same because I just used 1/8" steel leftovers for them. I also fixed the 2 holes for the fender mount that were stripping while I was working on the bracket by welding M6 nuts on after grinding the old threaded section out. Everything goes together without any pressure and can be hand tightened, so there should be no stress on it from the mounting setup.   |
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Post by 190mech on Apr 23, 2016 17:49:48 GMT -5
That 'oughta be there till the cows come home"!
If it was my project the next look-see would be the present iggy curve and what to do to make it better,,after that its a turbo or making it fire every stroke,,(wait a minute,that'd be a 2T!!)
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 23, 2016 19:29:14 GMT -5
Next for me is hoping for the wind to die down so I can at least figure out what kinda of gains I got and hopefully tune the carb. After that, I was going to see if this thing is any good :    Maybe there's a little help in the CVT. Beyond that, I'd be thinking bigger bore/stroker or the larger version of the GY6. I've also had the thought of cutting my losses on what may never be suitable as a motorcycle class vehicle and hunting down a Vespa GTS 300 after selling this. I've even considered some 400-600cc scoots that I've seen like a Silverwing, Burgman, and Majesty. I don't think I will though. That would be too sensible and I don't really wanna put out thousands of dollars. The big GY6 costs prob $700 shipped though, so before it got to that point, I may really be better off to move on to something from a Jap/Euro brand that's EFI and cruises on the highway without issue stock. Then there's that argument I make to myself about learning more about the incredibly popular, for reasons not yet totally clear to me, GY6 engine. |
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Post by 190mech on Apr 23, 2016 20:39:19 GMT -5
That purple racing box has gotta be better,Look at it!WOW!! Id love to see you flog this project a bit more as the 4poke groups are sooo tight lipped about their super power mods,just maybe you can crack this nut and help the helpless build a better ride!!!  |
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Post by niz76 on Apr 23, 2016 23:10:10 GMT -5
Pick up a vintage Vespa if you get a chance- you'll be learnin till your eyes bleed! May also bleed your wallet haha.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 24, 2016 5:59:29 GMT -5
That purple racing box has gotta be better,Look at it!WOW!! Id love to see you flog this project a bit more as the 4poke groups are sooo tight lipped about their super power mods,just maybe you can crack this nut and help the helpless build a better ride!!! I can already tell you one secret... spend big money. Well, big money compared to what I'm used to on the 50s and sport 2Ts. Some of the big crate engines are a couple thousand dollars. If you buy the 161QMF it's about $700, and then needs Taida parts to be bored and stroked if you really want a big GY6, so you spend a small fortune to build it yourself. I've never followed the 150 much, so I may be missing cheaper cases or something. I'm all ears if anyone reading knows the budget road to 200cc. Even then, you probably end up with a substantial amount into it, when there are much better quality scoots with 250cc+ engines that can be had used so it really has to be for the experience. I was offered a CBR600RR for $2500 last year. A friend was selling it for double that because he needed a quick buck and didn't ride much since his son was born, and said I could have it for that price if I wanted it. I did, but I had no M license and I make so little money that chunks of $2500 seems like a ton to me so I passed it up. It was in beautiful condition, low miles, garage kept, and making me kick myself now. I won't be able beat that dollar to horsepower or MPH ratio.  |
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Post by 190mech on Apr 24, 2016 6:58:55 GMT -5
I was hoping that your in depth research may make a better running 150 without throwing the credit card at it..The smaller Honda dirt/street bikes(yes,they have gearboxes) make good usable power with similar engine construction (AC,2 valve chain drive OHC,etc).The ones Ive had all used a centrifugal advance ignition running off the cam..That is the only difference in design that comes to my mind...
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 24, 2016 10:14:43 GMT -5
There's gotta be more in there even at 150-155cc, if it's doing what I think now (again I can't tell with the wind what it's really doing yet and it's probably not in tune). Here's a little info from some stuff in it's displacement class, with speeds referring to flat ground cruise capabilities based on what I've read or seen in vids. People's claims can vary a good bit, so I can't say it's all accurate. Make/Model
| Info
| Cruise
| Honda Grom
| 125cc, AC, SOHC 2V, 9.3:1 CR, EFI, 4 Speed
(10HP@7000RPM, 8ft-lbs@5500RPM)
| 50-55MPH
| Honda PCX150
| 153cc, LC, SOHC 2V, 10.6:1 CR, EFI, CVT
(~13HP@8500RPM, 10ft-lbs@5000RPM)
| 55-60MPH
| Yamaha Smax
| 155cc, LC, SOHC 4V, 11.0:1 CR, EFI, CVT
(14.8HP, 10ft-lbs@6000RPM, revs to 9500RPM)
| 65-70MPH
| Yamaha Zuma 125
| 125cc, AC, SOHC 4V, 10:1 CR, EFI, CVT
(7ft-lbs@6000RPM)
| 50-55MPH
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The Smax is the standout, with people comparing it's highway capabilities to 250ccs. I don't expect anywhere near that. I'd like to think I could get it to reliably go 50-55MPH so I could ride it on 50MPH roads and not be ran over if I had to get on a 55MPH highway for a minute to get somewhere. Would be nice if it can do that without having to go bigger cc. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 24, 2016 10:41:53 GMT -5
I was collecting info from whatever sources I could find it from at one point in the winter, looking for dyno numbers for GY6 setups. Here's some of what I collected. Keep in mind that these are WHP, not BHP like manufacturer #s above. Setup Info
| Performance
| 150cc, Endrigo Racing Head, Stock Carb, Aluminum Intake,
Air Filter, Exhaust, CDI, Coil
| 9.8HP/7.7ft-lbs
| 150cc, Air Filter, Exhaust
| 7.28HP
| 150cc, Endrigo Stage 1 Head & Intake, Air Filter, Exhaust
| 7.87HP
| 150cc, Endrigo Stage 2 Head & Intake, Air Filter, Exhaust
| 8.6HP
| 150cc, Air Filter, Exhaust, 7200RPM Max
| 9.42HP/7.64ft-lbs
| 150cc, Air Filter, Exhaust, 7000RPM Max
| 7.36HP/6.34ft-lbs
| 150cc, A9 Cam, 30mm Carb, Air Filter, Exhaust,
Ignition Advance Key
| 9HP
| Same As Above, Adding Porting
| 10HP
| 150cc, Air Filter, Exhaust
| 9.11HP
| 150cc, Exhaust, CVT Tune
| 14.38@42.8 1/8mi
| Same As Above, Adding 5HP N2O Dry Shot
| 12.66@48.6 1/8mi
| 155cc, NCY Cam, Air Filter, Exhaust
| 8.38HP/6.74ft-lbs
| 177cc, NCY Cam, Ported & Milled Head, Stock Carb,
Air Filter, Exhaust
| 10.9HP/7.57ft-lbs
| 190cc, A14 Cam, Upgraded Valve Springs, KS Power
Ported Head & Intake, Mikuni TM28 Carb
| 13.88HP
| 200cc, Built By Dank Factory w/Stage 2 Head,
30mm CVK Carb, Air Filter, Exhaust
| 12.75HP
80MPH Top Speed
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You can see there's quite a variation in even what a stock 150 puts out. Unfortunately, not much detail beyond what's bolted on. I looked up the Endrigo heads because I heard them mentioned a lot. $250-$325. www.buggypartsnw.com/index.php/endrigo-racing-cylinder-head-for-gy6.html |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 24, 2016 19:38:32 GMT -5
The wind settled down this afternoon to 5-10MPH. That's as good as I see in the forecast, so I took the opportunity to swap some jets around. Here are the results of tuning passes. In addition to the stats that I normally record, I also noted the speed I reached from my driveway to the turn onto the road where I recorded WOT max each way. It's roughly 1/8 mile. Jet
| WOT Max To
| WOT Max From
| WOT Max Avg
| Max CHT
| To 1st Turn
| 125
| 52.7MPH/8100RPM
| N/A
| N/A
| 363F
| 47MPH
| 120
| 54.2MPH/8250RPM
| 52.5MPH/8200RPM
| 53.4MPH/8225RPM
| 385F
| 47.5MPH
| 115
| 51.8MPH/8100RPM
| 52.9MPH/8200RPM
| 52.4MPH/8150RPM
| 385F
| 47MPH
| 112
| 54.1MPH/8100RPM
| 52.7MPH/8150RPM
| 53.4MPH/8125RPM
| 391F
| 47MPH
| 110
| 54.3MPH/8250RPM
| 52.4MPH/8200RPM
| 53.4MPH/8225RPM
| 409F
| 48MPH
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It tried to die on me after holding WOT with the 125, that's why the N/As. I think the first runs with the 115 and 120 were off because of wind changing. The 112 number to the 1st turn was also low I'm sure, because I could feel the wind coming at me that run. I settled on the 112 main jet because it's results were as good as anything else and it didn't run quite as hot. I never tried a 105 main because temps were getting high. I took it out for 25 miles or so, making sure I went all different directions, so I could see how it did at holding speed. I could maintain 52-53MPH in any direction on flat ground. With the wind, I let out of it. I only wanted to see that it could hold a couple MPH more than 50 since that's the speed limit on most main roads right around me. Max was 55.7MPH, but I let out, again not looking for max speeds right now. Practical speed means more to me ATM. So you can get a better idea of what's changed from stock, tuned w/filter & pickup mod, to now; I was seeing about 42MPH to the 1st turn stock, 45MPH tuned, 48MPH now. WOT Max Avg has gone from roughly 48MPH, to 50MPH, to 53MPH. It seems to be better at holding speeds now as well. On the ride, I noticed a metallic "ting" on real bumpy bits. The center stand doesn't touch the header when it's up, but it's within 1/8". It's just close enough that on harsh bumps they can make contact. I'll look into that and see if I can make a simple stop. It shouldn't take much change at all to keep them from hitting.  When I pulled into my driveway, the scooter died. I coasted into the garage and noticed a gas smell and a puddle under the left side. I thought something happened to the drain hose at first, but discovered a tiny crack/cut in the fuel hose.  |
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Post by 190mech on Apr 24, 2016 19:55:41 GMT -5
Looking better!
They sure make some crap fuel line these days!Hard to find any worth counting on...Think its due to the fuels we are forced to run,,,,
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 24, 2016 20:27:34 GMT -5
I've found OEM Honda hose to be some of the best out there. Mine are 18 years old and still soft and flexible. You can look up cross reference online to find the correct sizes. Most of my equipment use them. 2¢
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 25, 2016 13:29:24 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 25, 2016 14:36:44 GMT -5
I tried a different CDI, 2 different coils, and another 6 pole stator. None of them will trigger the timing light. None of them will consistently jump more than the 20kV to maybe 22.5kV range on the gap tester. For comparison, when I checked out the TaoTao some time ago it would do 30-35kV and my 2T was doing 25-30kV.
At this point all components have been swapped out and connections are tight, so I'm not sure what I can do about it. The tach is spliced in just after the CDI and I thought about that, but the tachs are spliced in on the TaoTao and T2 on the wire between the CDI and coil too.
Reluctor/pickup gap is good and it doesn't misfire, it's only the readings that are off.
Shouldn't have anything to do with a kill or ignition switch because they are on/off AFAIK. It's a quick test, so I'll check that as well to be thorough. EDIT : Nope. No continuity with ground on the kill wire. I checked and I don't have another 6 pole flywheel. That and the spark plug are all that's left, and the plug shouldn't be an issue. It's an NGK CR7HIX, iridium version of what's in the TaoTao.
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Post by 190mech on Apr 25, 2016 16:48:11 GMT -5
STRAAANGE!!!I too ran into a non timing light issue also recently on a one off experiment,,light worked good on other iggy's,,,  |
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