long time coming... turbo 2t

[chehystpewpur]

well as the title says here in the next few months i should be running around on a turbocharged 2t for shits and giggles. ive always wanted to attempt it and now that my scooter isnt getting any love due to me having a real car with 4 wheels so i need a reason to drive ole betsy. in the last few months ive been doing tons of research on the old and new 2t sleds and banshees that got turboed and from the sounds of it most of them remained fairly untouched to accept boost. ive been playing with some ideas in my head to aid with the problems if the boost charge blowing straight past the combustion chamber and i think i may have found a winning combo to help fight that though from a physics standpoint the minarellis's we all love have a big helping hand with the air and fuel going into the crank case before the cylinder. some old 2t engines ive played with the intake was on the cylinder those would be impossible.

supposedly boost busters over on youtube managed to place their am6 shifter engine in a crotch rocket frame and get some pretty interesting results from it but alas mine only have a cvt and trans designed to stay in whatever powerband i choose until around 70-90 mph. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zybsu4Mwato its worth a watch please enjoy.

ive acquired 2 tiny turbos in the last year to try and get a good idea of if im going to be able to even spool the thing. one of the ones i got is a turbo from an srt4 neon. yeah it comes from a 2 liter engine but its absolutely tiny and is famed for its ability to spool if you sneeze too hard and another is a slightly larger turbo but it has variable vanes. the variable vanes are a grace from a higher power in the turbo world for those that dont know about them because they effectively let you change your exhaust housing and turbine on the fly. more or less no lag from idle then when rpms climb it readjusts to stay making constant boost without ever missing a beat. both are almost brand new and have coolant passages and oil passages. i plan on switching to liquid cooled anyways due to it getting up to 105 degrees in the summer where i live and my air cooled builds hated cruising at 55-65 mph in that heat. im going to use a crank driven water pump to get my coolant moving and i found some low wattage oil pumps for cheap that i can put a secondary oil system in for the turbo. my charging system barely even gets used anyways due to switching all of my bulbs to leds because they are brighter and use less power and carry light intensity farther. plus projectors with halos look sweet on my bike lol.

ill still be using a carb for now due to cost but if it all works decent ill slowly change over to fuel injection due to no carb jetting and also im trying to get into diesel tuning and also gas motor tuning because of the money you can make in that field.
turbo goes after the expansion chamber on the exhaust to try and help keep it from wanting to spool up and down as the exhaust pulses go out and back in the cylinder. plus one of my ideas will help smooth out the exhaust pulse problem for the turbo and make it think it is a 1 stroke along with introducing fresh air and fuel into the exhaust to be burned by the scavenging cycle helping with the lean at wot problems and also egt issues. basically my design is going to be a constant pressure spooling the turbo like if you just stuck an air hose into the exhaust rather than having exhaust pulses like a normal motor but nothing is going to really be added to achieve this and i havent seen it tried or used before so i cant give up my secret until after it is working for fear of someone else getting to make one work before me. keep an eye out here and there for this topic over the next few months because im going to start building this as soon as i can get some other things taken care of so i dont have to worry about them. within a month i should have all of my engine parts swapped over back into my higher quality engine case and the liquid cooling system working and my bike back up and running as naturally aspirated.

also it may end up going to a diesel fuel type during the process and that would greatly help with some issues of running a turbo. detonation from cheap gas and added upper cylinder lubrication along with the bearings my motor would thank me. ive ran a high comp cylinder before that was 15:1 with a 50:50 gas diesel mix and it ran like a beast no joke. that tank of fuel was the best acceleration and top speed ive achieved from my bike but i dont count it due to the fact it was a 1 time fluke. cylinder temps stayed about 40 degrees cooler and i did over 70 on my bike. according to science diesel only needs a 15:1 compression ratio to ignite and everyone always says ooohhhh glow plugs yo what about those. the cummins runs a 17:1 comp ratio and hasnt needed glow plugs for over 20 years... duramax's also dont need glow plugs unless its below freezing so thats a load of hogwash. ford diesels on the other hand need every bit of help they can get to start. when i make the jump to diesel i plan on using a spare head shaved down a good amount to get my compression up to atleast 16:1 or 17:1 for ease of starting and also added power no reason to change port timing by decking the cylinder base but maybe decking the top of the cylinder would be helpful too. i have lathes at my disposal to do both and a machine shop that would gladly help if i cant manage to do it myself they want to see it too. they built quite a few 2t race bikes in the big motor world along with some dirtbikes and mini quads for their good customers.

my coworker call me petty for wanting a turbo 2t but i tell them they just dont understand. i love my bike and nothing beats peoples faces when they laugh at u at the light and you end up doing a wheelie from a dig and roll smoke on them in the process. or when you pass them because they dont know how to drive the speed limit and your on a moped. add a whoosh and a blow off valve to it and it would be worthless because you cant put a price on that.

[kagetenshi]

Food for thought... They do make turbos for small engine racing go-carts. Might be worth looking into.

[kagetenshi]

Is it even possible to convert a 2 stroke to straight diesel fuel? Case in point would be bio-diesel. Easy to make fuel for little to no cost. I have had so many ideas surrounding that issue for a long time.

[aeroxbud]

This could be a build to watch
Good luck with it

[iwiketuddlz]

Pretty sure a chamber pipe is already like a turbo??
This is Gona be very cool
Good luck sir!!!
Braaaaap

[ryan_ott]

I seriously hope you see this through. I attempted this on a 150cc 4t years ago and it wasn't what I was expecting. Poor performance.

[ryan_ott]

Here is the guy your going to want. I believe one of the smallest turbos . I thinks it's a RHB31 - GT12, GT15 is another, close to 1" outlet and exhaust flange. I've done lots of research on the before and have some good links to products. I'll dig some up a bit later.

[Jwhood]

Hgt tuning in Colorado has done this too with great results,100 mph on 13"="INSANITY " :cool:

[chehystpewpur]

hah that sounds scary to go that fast on a scooter but im sure it would be a blast. and ive thought about the small turbos but i have some issues with them. availability price and also durability. ive acquired these for next to nothing and the neon one atleast is insanely popular so rebuild kits and replacements if it goes kerpow are next to nothing. ie i can buy them for 50 bux a pop maybe 100 all day long. those tiny ones are sometimes 600-1000 if you can get your hands on them and hard to find parts for. the bigger one i have that has variable vanes is around 800 bux brand new and easy to sell if its too big but both are smaller than the t3 style boost busters was using and able to make good boost with. to put it into perspective the neon one the compressor is only maybe 3 cm. im talking tiny ill try and get some pictures of both of them sunday when i actually have a day off. the expansion chambers on our motors are more like a camshaft and wacky exhaust valve than a turbo or supercharger. the crankcase and piston on the other hand those act in a sense as a charger. one of the reasons why i cringe when people say nooo you cant boost a 2t. they make 2-3 psi of boost in stock form in our motors case. stuffer cranks and solid cranks like my stage6 hpc make slightly more. speaking of the rod on my stage 6 is actually extremely meaty which is why its rated for 16k rpms. i have a good dopplar one i never got to use due to it being the wrong size for my keeway it has a meaty conrod almost like an h-beam or i-beam but nowhere near as meaty as my stage6 and the rpm rating is about 1000-2000 rpms lower depending on who you ask. i laughed so hard when i seen the stock crank next to those but then i seen some regular stock cranks and didnt laugh as hard. i think my stocker was rated for 11k-12k it wasnt a bonafied keeway motor the previous owner siezed it up and it was replaced with a better than stock minarelli but not quite a keeway one. there are some minute differences in the real keeway motor and the one i had along with about a 10 mph diff between the two. he said it used to do 60 and when i got it and got it running again it did 53 mph. i was always afraid to go over the known safe 10k rpm limit on stock cranks but it was ran at 12-13k a few times with no adverse affects and seen 10k daily and sustained for almost 20k miles with no adverse affects its still a perfectly fine crank.
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By2rcNqfITkKemRGLW5IRXFUMzg&usp=sharing heres a link showing a few quick pictures of the cranks next to eachother.

and yes a 2t can be converted to diesel and a diesel can also be converted to 2t. do some reading all the old detroit diesels aka screamers were famed for their high rpm operation hence screamer nicknames. 70's and 80's they were spinning a whopping 5-6k rpms daily all day long and most were also a 2t design until the superchargers and twin charged variations were introduced. raise the compression on a 2t enough and it will run fine on diesel but if the comp ratio is too low starting is a pita to say the least. id contemplated doin a glow plug style head with quite a few spare good glow plugs ive snagged from work that were on their way to the scrap bin. im cheap ok? 8 bux apiece or 8 at a time for free you do the math. i get raided daily or weekly on my saved random stashes of oddball stuff at work. they laugh at me when i save stuff but it always saves the day in the end. if you lower the compression on a diesel enough you can also run it on 2t mixed gas it just has to be a high enough octane fuel to avoid detonation or spark knock. usually around 14:1 or less on pump gas. model planes and some 2t rc cars have off the shelf kits to convert to diesel for better economy and also more power along with cheaper running costs due to biodiesel costs. i got interested in the idea years ago when the govt converted almost all of their 2t drones and equipment over to diesel because almost everything they use already is so why keep stocking a million diff types of fuel when you can just store 1 or 2. also why they switched from to tnt to anfo. Ammonium Nitrate and Fuel Oil. at the time of switching it was about 20 bux to make 100 lbs of explosives and guess what its made from fertilizer and diesel or kerosene whichever they had laying around and was 80% as strong as tnt. much cheaper and less volitile. ever try making or transporting raw gunpowder? you wouldnt be answering if you did lol its dangerous without ammonia and that weakens it. but i digress the main reason why diesel and 2t are fairly interchangeable is die to the lubricants in the fuel both act as a fuel and lubricant. put them in a 4 stroke and its mostly bad day after a short while along with a pretty bad case of the hershey squirts out the exhaust right off the bat. a little 2t oil or diesel doesnt hurt them though and will actually help them last longer due to lubrication on the top of the rings they normally wouldnt have.

the fluke i had when i ran the 50-50 mix of diesel and gas diesoline as i like to call it actually prevented my cylinder from kerploding on me when my oil pump failed and i didnt know it. it was running fine for a tank and a half until the fresh gas i filled up with diluted it enough that it stopped lubricating and fried my piston ring at about 65 mph and 11k rpms instantly after filling up i noticed a loss of power and i was like ohh the diesel must be getting diluted then the temps skyrocketed and that was that. the exhaust caught on fire directly after and was keeping me cruising at a hefty 20 mph acting as a jet engine basically. it was about 1 am and i was in the middle of a 20 mile ride so i didnt want to let out once i realized my engine was toast because id be pushing it the rest of the ride and i was only 5 miles into the ride. but once i started smelling the muffler burning and see nthe expansion chamber glowing red almost white hot i decided i wanted to keep my leg so i stopped. the cylinder temp was exceptionally low at the time though so that was pretty cool literally. first time id ever rode my bike at 20mph and temps were well under 200 degrees with it technically running.
as always sorry for the long winded post but its better than keeping it short and sweet forums are for information sharing.

[chehystpewpur]

sorry for the delay in posting i had a long day yesterday and at the end of the day i helped my landlord with an attachment for their tractor and found out the part i had to take off was so rusted up that the attachments for the chains ended up bending to release instead of unthreading thanks to cheap chinese metal.

drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By2rcNqfITkKcFd4dGhBX3dJZkE&usp=sharing
big turbo i dug up some old pictures i had of it i think its just a little too big to say the least. it would have that big turbo supra look and probably run like one too. not a whole lot of fun but when it worked im sure it would be a riot.

drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By2rcNqfITkKYUFCRDRVbUZEdTA&usp=sharing
small turbo. actually not much bigger than the one posted up above from ryan-ott. that appears to be about a 15mm compressor wheel and mine is in the low 30mm range. but then again its 2 times as big so its alot bigger. with the way its designed maybe ill get it to spool reasonably instead of the normal big turbo lag. the cars these were sold on were famed for how quick they spool and some similar size older turbo motors see a big gain in bottom end by swapping to them. like the old plymouth lasers eagle talons eclipses and even the stealths.

ill be using my malossi overrange so i can launch at whatever rpm i want and that should hopefully improve driveability if not atleast it should make for a fun few holeshots before something goes boom. i have a hoca clutch that wasnt too bad after i found out it uses gy6 clutch springs and contra spring and a shim for the clutch bell. its tuneable and performs slightly better than my stock one did. i feel like it most likely wont hold up too long but maybe ill get lucky and find a good deal on a real clutch.

the previous renters at the property my shop is on moved out and a coworker moved in so hes letting my stick my bike in the shed once hes done moving everything around so ill be able to get to it easier than at the back of a storage container where its at now. so ill get to start mocking up where stuff will actually fit and and figure out how i want to route the exhaust. i dont want to tamper with the exhaust before the last mm of the stinger. thats a whole tuned unit and the exhaust alone could make the project destined to fail. i want to try my leo zince zxr pipe. the bottom end could atleast get me moving around well if the turbo isnt doing anything and if it finally spooled at 10k + rpms it might make up the loss of power from the pipe. and i have a stage 6 pro rep that will rev to the moon if i ask it to. but they have different flanges one is just a tube and the other has a thin 3 bolt flange with the stinger protruding atleast 2 inches. im thinking some sort of flange will give the best seal and using a muffler is going to be a must i cant imagine how loud it would be without using one. i get tons of small tube flex joints for exhaust and egr from work that are extremely close to the diameter of the exhaust on both of my exhausts. so i lucked out on being able to get some of those to let everything wiggle a little on the bumps instead of break bolts. if i cant get the exhaust plumbed without it flowing well i may send it to the exhaust shop we deal with. they had already said they would before after laughing at me alot because we usually send them huge trucks. so atleast it would come out pretty good and actually be bent pipe for that application and i could have an adapter for each exhaust so i could keep the turbo in the exact same place instead of move a little due to the angle of each exhaust being a little different. id just have to pay them the price of materials and a tip for the guy that does it.