Before I even get started, I am sorry for the sound in some of the videos. It is out of sync in certain vids. I spent a lot of time on them and really wanted a good product. I'm disappointed to say the least. I viewed them numerous times before exporting the files. It seems PowerDirector9 has some sort of output issues with synchronizing sound and video. Again, I apologize.
I have swapped out the audio on the worst of them.
Rollers, Sliders, And ModsIn this segment, I'm testing roller weights against slider weights as well as seeing how the stock variator stacks up against the previously modded one. I did all of the swaps below and made all of the test rides in a very short time period on exactly the same stretch of road. This was done in an effort to keep results as accurate as I could by reducing variances in ambient temperature, wind speed, etc... Hope it helps!
The videos in this segment are edited in the best way I could think of to really show the effects of each weight change or modification. It's sort of like watching the scooter race itself. Take note of landmarks along the way for an even better idea of which setups work best. You may notice that some of the quicker or faster setups at the end aren't winning the race all the way through.
Roller Weight ComparisonThese runs were made to show the differences in light and heavy roller weights. I actually did these runs last, after realizing it won't do much good to show sliding weights with nothing to compare to. I only tried 5g and 7g rollers, because I was flat out of time to work and ride at that point.
The lighter 5g rollers clearly have an advantage in early acceleration, but as you can see, the heavier rollers do start to catch up a little, exhibiting the same max speed over the distance, and I feel that they would prevail in a longer race over a flat surface if I stayed tucked down. I have been using 6g rollers, which I feel was the right choice. They provided good upper MPH performance as well as good starting acceleration.
Sliding Weight ComparisonFor these tests, I'm using Dr Pulley sliding roller weights (sliders). Other manufacturer's do make sliders. I have a set of non-Dr Pulley sliders and they function much the same. The main difference I have witnessed is longevity. Dr Pulley sliders seem to be more resilient to abuse than the off-brand units. The image below shows the difference in a roller (left) and a slider (right). The specialized shape of the slider allows it to provide both increased acceleration and top speed potential.
For those of you unfamiliar with installing sliders, these pictures should show you how they are to be installed. It is very important to install sliders properly. Degraded performance or possibly even damage to the sliders or other components could occur if they are not correctly installed.
I only have 5 gram and 7 gram sliders at this point. The weights were staggered, as shown below, to achieve the effect of 6 gram sliders.
The testing...
The 5g and 6g sliders are pretty clear winners here. Excellent acceleration and the same top speed. Again, as with the rollers, I feel that the heaviest sliders may show a slight advantage over a long flat stretch. The lighter sliders will function much better for daily use, providing quicker starts and more ability to maintain speed on hills and against the wind.
Rollers vs SlidersNow that we have an idea of which sliders and rollers perform the best, we can compare their performance.
It seems to me that you can make rollers accelerate off the line as well as sliders or perform at speed as well as sliders, but not both at the same time. The design of slider weights give them a definite advantage. There's not a huge difference in the two, but I'd say that's a decent difference for the cost of sliders. I paid about $25 shipped per set on eBay for these 15x12 sliders. To their benefit, roller weights can be had at much lower prices.
Due to the lower cost of rollers, they can be a great tuning tool. Rather than buy many sets of sliders at $25 or so a set, you can usually find a "tuning set" of roller for just a little more that includes a wide range of weights. Once you get the weight dialed in with rollers, the slider you'll want to use will probably be the same weight or possibly up to 20% heavier I'd guess.
The great advantage that sliders have over rollers that you can't see in these vids is that they tend to greatly outlast roller weights. I've used the smae sliders seemingly forever in some of my scoots without issue. Rollers tend to flat spot over time, which severely degrades performance. If you ask me, sliders are a clear winner.
Variator ModsWhile I was testing, I wanted to sort of revisit the previous mods that I did to the variator and fan. For more detail on the variator mods shown and tested, see my previous update.
I marked the variator with a Sharpie before every test. Below are the results of how much belt travel was left on the variator after each pass as well as the MPH achieved as shown on my GPS. Fixed face = variator fan. Movable face = variator.
Description | Remaining Marker | Max Speed |
Stock Fixed + Movable, 5g Rollers | 6.97mm | 49MPH |
Stock Fixed + Movable, 7g Rollers | 6.50mm | 49MPH |
Stock Fixed + Movable, 5g Sliders | 6.33mm | 50MPH |
Stock Fixed + Movable, 6g Sliders | 5.44mm | 50MPH |
Stock Fixed + Movable, 7g Sliders | 5.30mm | 50MPH |
Filed Fixed + Stock Movable, 5g Sliders | 5.81mm | 50MPH |
Stock Fixed + Filed Movable, 5g Sliders | 5.49mm | 51MPH |
Filed Fixed + Filed Movable, 5g Sliders | 5.39mm | 51MPH |
One thing that the vid or the numbers don't illustrate is belt slip. I found that using the better performing 5 or 6 gram sliders along with the modified drive faces added belt slip. This did not appear to be a problem with the roller weights.
In addition to the videos show here, I tried 6g and 7g sliders with the modified parts as well. It was less apparent with the 7g sliders, but belt slip was present with all of them at certain points. You can actually see right where it happens in the image below. Notice the area polished by the belt slipping as it transitioned from the flatter center section into the outer portion of the face. I believe this could be remedied with more time and effort exerted in blending the angles of the fixed and movable halves.
Here is a quick video where you can clearly hear the afore mentioned belt slip. This was with 6g sliders and both filed faces.
Another thing that you can't see in the videos or the figures is the feel of the transmission with the modified faces. At idle and lower RPM, until the clutch engages, the engine is free revving with the modified drive faces. With the stock parts, the belt sort of binds in the variator so you don't get the full feeling of effect of later engaging clutch springs.
Conclusion / My ChoiceSo out of all of the things tested, which did I decide to stick with? I chose to go with the stock variator and fan and 6 gram Dr Pulley sliders. Yes, a couple of setups showed a 1MPH gain over this one. Yes, I recorded more belt travel with a few other setups. Overall though, the 6g sliders coupled with the stock front pulley parts were as quick as any other setup under the tested conditions.
Also remember that I took a 7 mile ride with each of those setups. All over the exact same course. The 6g sliding weights and stock parts performed on par with any other setup under those conditions. It was a very close call between the 5g and 6g sliders though. As you can see in the mod video, I was initially planning on using the 5g sliders. I feel that the 5g sliders would be a good choice if I were in a hillier area. The 5g sliders also show a benefit against the wind. The 6g sliders keep the cruise and max RPM just a tiny bit lower though. I felt like that may translate to very slightly improved fuel economy and engine life as well as possibly a higher max speed if I were to stay tucked for a long time or catch a tailwind while riding. If I had the option, I'd go with 5.5g sliders. The main deciding factor for choosing the stock parts vs filed was belt slip. While not drastic, I felt it may have a negative effect on drive belt life without showing any significant gains.
Of course each rider must choose the combination that works best for them. Some riders will sacrifice more top speed for more top end. Others will be willing to give up some acceleration if it nets another MPH or two. Rider weight, engine horsepower and torque, CVT setup, gearing, tire size, and other variables will all change what works best for each scooter. I can show you how these things work for me, but only time tuning and learning what you like will allow you to choose the best setup for you.
After swapping back to the stock variator and 6g sliders, I took the scooter for a ride to get a gas mileage figure. I filled up at 32.31 miles with 0.793 gallons of fuel, which is 40.74MPG. I have seen 45MPG in the past. I was riding just before a storm blew in and I believe fighting wind associated with the storm led to the drop in economy. It should be about the same as before, around 45MPH if I had to use less throttle without the wind. It reached 51MPH with me tucked, once again. I feel like I just need more power and it will easily give me more speed at this point.
This seems like a good time to make a note about RPM. Unfortunately I kept forgetting to read the max RPM that the tach displays after the ignition is shut off to provide that data. What I can tell you after making so many trips with all sorts of weights is where the engine performs the best. With my current setup, best power is found from 6,000-8,000RPM with the absolute peak being from 6,800-7,800RPM. It will make power over 8,000RPM to help reach higher speeds, but those are the peak figures as best I can tell without the use of a dyno.
