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Post by sparklepants on Aug 20, 2016 21:12:18 GMT -5
Sold my scoot tonight. But I had a worrisome thought that maybe others can weigh in on.
Since I've altered the scooter with a BBK, if it breaks down for the new owner and someone runs him over, is there any plausible claim that I am at fault because I failed to repair the scooter properly?
Since I no longer own it, my insurance doesn't cover me for liability, I think.
But it also occurs to me that this would he a horrible precedent that would impose liability on anyone who has ever worked on a vehicle, a notable example being brake shops.
Thoughts anyone?
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Post by humanshield on Aug 20, 2016 21:13:46 GMT -5
Sold AS IS..... Not your problem anymore. Relax and enjoy a cold one  |
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Post by dan50 on Aug 21, 2016 0:23:43 GMT -5
Sold AS IS..... Not your problem anymore. Relax and enjoy a cold one I agree. But you know how some lawyers and Judges are! When you sell a vehicle, make sure you fill out a sales receipt that the buyer signs. The receipt should state "Sold in as is condition, no warranty expressed or implied". This is for you to keep. This will cover you if some idiot comes back on you. In MI., a buyer has 3 business days to transfer the vehicle into their name (scooters are registered with the state and licensed). If they don't transfer the vehicle in time, you have the receipt showing it was sold and on what date. As a purchaser, I have the same type of receipt filled out, stating sale price and that the vehicle was "Paid in Full". In this day & age of stupid lawsuits, you have to protect yourself as both a seller and as a buyer. |
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Post by niz76 on Aug 21, 2016 1:12:29 GMT -5
Just want to add to this; many folks don't know or realize that the top of the title that is perforated and removable is for you, the seller, to remove and keep at the sale. Well, not to keep but to send it in- this is the "Notice of sale of Motor Vehicle". You keep this part of the title, fill it out, and send it in showing that you have sold this vehicle. Who knows how long it'll take the buyer to transfer title into their own name- if even ever!
This is printed along the top of that form (Here in FL anyway):
" Section 319.22(2), Florida Statutes, requires that the seller file a Notice of Sale with the department within 30 days after the sale or transfer of the motor vehicle, vessel or mobile home. Filing this form removes any civil liability for the operation of the sold motor vehicle, vessel or mobile home. In addition to filing this form, we suggest you keep a copy of your Bill of Sale (we suggest it be notarized), certificate of title or other type of transaction document showing the vehicle was sold. Complete the information below, tear the top portion of this document at the perforation and mail to the address above or submit to your local tax collectors's office or license plate agency."
So if you've got something similar on your title in your state, be sure to tear it off before handing over the title. That part is for you the buyer to keep and fill out and file! If you don't have titles for scoots in your state, it's probably a good idea to go to your local DMV and find out the correct procedure for transferring ownership and liability!
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Post by dan50 on Aug 21, 2016 1:21:52 GMT -5
In MI., all we have is a registration, no title. The registration must go with the buyer of the scooter. In many states, scooters don't have a title or registration. That's why I suggested the receipt (which is actually a written contract) to protect yourself as both buyer and seller. Getting the sales receipt notarized is a very good point. My family have used these receipts since I was a teenager, and they have helped in situations where the other person is trying to pull a scam.
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liftit
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 264
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Post by liftit on Aug 21, 2016 2:24:09 GMT -5
Lawyer here. As with all legal questions, the answer is "it depends". Depends on local laws, sales contract, and what happened during the process of the sale. Putting "no warranties, express or implied" is a good start, but most laws, including the Uniform Commercial Code require that statement to be very conspicuous. Larger font, bolded, separate line, etc. Helps to have the buyer initial there too.
However, if you make some sort of claim that it's all stock, you could possibly be held liable to some extent for fraud, making a material misstatement of fact that was relied on by the purchaser.
I don't think you could be held liable if something broke, but if he got a ticket for illegal mods, there's a possibility that he could get something from you for knowingly selling an illegal good.
This is of course general legal advice and I am in no way implying that this is a formal legal opinion given for your specific issue and use. (Ethics require me to put shit like this in here)
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 21, 2016 6:48:34 GMT -5
I haven't used it on scooters yet, but I made this up for cars and trucks and either copy it once signed so the buyer and I each have copies or just fill out 1 for each of us at the time of sale. I also make copies of any other documents so that I have them. If there's anything else that you are worried about, you can add it on. For example; when I sold my Mustang it had aftermarket gauges, so I also modified the BoS to add that odometer mileage is not actual mileage. There was an odomoeter statement that I had to fill out in MD, but I wanted it noted clearly here too. Not saying this holds up in court for certain, but I feel much better than having them sign just a title. Attachments:BillofSale.pdf (37.92 KB)
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Post by sparklepants on Aug 21, 2016 8:02:01 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the helpful discussion!
I did verbally tell him that a LOT of parts were replaced, including a larger piston. I specifically said that with this piston change, technically, you are supposed to get a plate for it, and insurance - but, it doesn't go markedly faster, so you'll not be pulled over by a cop for it.
I am in Michigan, so I simply filled out the back of the registration and took his money.
It also occurred to me that, well, what if he doesn't go to the Secretary of State and transfer it into his name? The registration is good until 2018, so what is the hurry? But I guess the cops would pick up on that given the writing on the back of the registration.
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Post by humanshield on Aug 21, 2016 12:18:33 GMT -5
Lawyer here. As with all legal questions, the answer is "it depends". Depends on local laws, sales contract, and what happened during the process of the sale. Putting "no warranties, express or implied" is a good start, but most laws, including the Uniform Commercial Code require that statement to be very conspicuous. Larger font, bolded, separate line, etc. Helps to have the buyer initial there too. However, if you make some sort of claim that it's all stock, you could possibly be held liable to some extent for fraud, making a material misstatement of fact that was relied on by the purchaser. I don't think you could be held liable if something broke, but if he got a ticket for illegal mods, there's a possibility that he could get something from you for knowingly selling an illegal good. This is of course general legal advice and I am in no way implying that this is a formal legal opinion given for your specific issue and use. (Ethics require me to put shit like this in here) The only ones who win in every contest of litigation is.........(wait for it)..... Lawyers.  |
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Post by dan50 on Aug 21, 2016 23:58:53 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the helpful discussion! I did verbally tell him that a LOT of parts were replaced, including a larger piston. I specifically said that with this piston change, technically, you are supposed to get a plate for it, and insurance - but, it doesn't go markedly faster, so you'll not be pulled over by a cop for it. I am in Michigan, so I simply filled out the back of the registration and took his money. It also occurred to me that, well, what if he doesn't go to the Secretary of State and transfer it into his name? The registration is good until 2018, so what is the hurry? But I guess the cops would pick up on that given the writing on the back of the registration. Michigan allows up to 100cc to be licensed as a scooter. They changed this from 50c about 2 years ago. All the other requirements stayed the same; Can't go more that 30mph on flat road, only 1 rider, no gear shifting. As far as the BBK, if you are under 100cc's it can still be registered and licensed as a moped (I know; NOT a moped). |
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