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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 1, 2016 22:09:49 GMT -5
39.3 MPHRan my Spree on a Dynojet 250i Dyno today. What we are doing at this point is trying to determine the best air/fuel using the stock air box. Rather then repeat the findings so far, gonna do a cross forum link to where the results from all 5 runs and conditions used can be found: hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33591&start=60If anybody on this site has some input to help me out here that would be awesome!! I'm not a 2T guy, neither is Shawn at SS Collision & Cycleworks so were going at this kind of blind. The situation is, Honda designed the Spree engine to run properly with the airbox in place. I have a Tazland 48mm BBK installed, higher gears, and an MLM sidebleed muffler. Obviously with those changes the air intake dynamics need to change, and possibly, though it has not been determined as an exact yet... the oil ratio being fed to the engine needs changed.. All evidence so far almost indicates that it DOESN'T need changed. The bike is being ran with the oil pump and an added 64:1 ratio oil/gas mix in the tank. So far without drilling any holes in the airbox we get: Video 1: FILTER AND LID IN PLACE, NO HOLES DRILLED YET, runs like shit! Videos 2 and 3: Lid removed, filter still in place, 35mph @ 4300RPM Videos 4 and 5: Lid and filter both removed, run free air. 35mph @ 8800RPM Peak speed 39.3 MPH
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 22:15:16 GMT -5
You call that close to 40 mph? Ha ha.
I find this very interesting and I am sure that a lot of us can learn from your testing here. I will read all of the supplied information.
Thanks,
Bill
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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 1, 2016 22:30:36 GMT -5
Hopefully we don't end up blowing the dang thing. Totally NOT breaking it in proper by torturing it on the Dyno, and totally NOT running it at the oil ratio recommended by Taz in his instructions. But, if we blow it, we blow it... Que Sera, Sera. I have a backup AFO5 variated engine on my work bench.
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Post by gsx600racer on Sept 1, 2016 22:44:12 GMT -5
"Videos 2 and 3: Lid removed, filter still in place, 35mph @ 4300RPM Videos 4 and 5: Lid and filter both removed, run free air. 35mph @ 8800RPM Peak speed 39.3 MPH" Well your RPM numbers are clear that it wants to rev without the airbox restrictions. Are you running the stock variator ? I only ask because @ 4300 rpm you were doing 35mph & @ 8800 rpm it was running 39 mph, thats only 3 mph difference over 4500 rpm difference, that just doesn't add up. I think the variator is governing your speed, big time.  |
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Post by birdman on Sept 1, 2016 22:50:51 GMT -5
"Videos 2 and 3: Lid removed, filter still in place, 35mph @ 4300RPM Videos 4 and 5: Lid and filter both removed, run free air. 35mph @ 8800RPM Peak speed 39.3 MPH" Well your RPM numbers are clear that it wants to rev without the airbox restrictions. Are you running the stock variator ? I only ask because @ 4300 rpm you were doing 35mph & @ 8800 rpm it was running 39 mph, thats only 3 mph difference over 4500 rpm difference, that just doesn't add up. I think the variator is governing your speed, big time. The spree stock engine is not variated |
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Post by gsx600racer on Sept 1, 2016 22:53:44 GMT -5
"Videos 2 and 3: Lid removed, filter still in place, 35mph @ 4300RPM Videos 4 and 5: Lid and filter both removed, run free air. 35mph @ 8800RPM Peak speed 39.3 MPH" Well your RPM numbers are clear that it wants to rev without the airbox restrictions. Are you running the stock variator ? I only ask because @ 4300 rpm you were doing 35mph & @ 8800 rpm it was running 39 mph, thats only 3 mph difference over 4500 rpm difference, that just doesn't add up. I think the variator is governing your speed, big time. The spree stock engine is not variated LOL Learned something new today. |
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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 1, 2016 22:57:45 GMT -5
No variator. This is a Spree engine, it doesn't use one. And the dynamics were changed for videos 2-3 and 4-5. The peak horse was actually better WITH an air filter. That's where it hit 35@4300. When it was ran free air HP and Torque took a huge dive and that's why it went 35@8800. The air box and filter HAVE TO BE used, or we get a loss of power. When it was ran stock, with air box and cover, it ran like shit because it wasn't getting enough air. The instructions for the BBK are to drill 3 1 inch holes in the air box. My contention, is that 3 1" holes, is way too much air. That's why it was tested in 3 different conditions to see where we are at and what it does. - With air filter and cover, no holes drilled
- No cover
- No cover, no filter
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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 1, 2016 23:02:55 GMT -5
35 @ 4300 no lid on air box, filter still installed
35 @ 8800 lid and filter removed
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Post by gsx600racer on Sept 1, 2016 23:41:53 GMT -5
I think the engine was revving much higher than 4300 rpm in the first video, especially if you compare the sound to the second vid.
Watch this vid. The engines start to sync at about 28-29 mph. Pause the vid and look at the rpms.
Not trying to start an argument, I am REALLY trying to wrap my head around the 3 mph difference over 4500 rpm difference.
Unless that clutch was slipping like hell in one of the runs.
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Post by niz76 on Sept 1, 2016 23:45:19 GMT -5
Are there any jetting changes being made here or simply adjusting air input? Seems adding some fuel plus additional air might be the magic formula....
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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 1, 2016 23:54:45 GMT -5
I think the engine was revving much higher than 4300 rpm in the first video, especially if you compare the sound to the second vid. Watch this vid. The engines start to sync at about 28-29 mph. Pause the vid and look at the rpms. Not trying to start an argument, I am REALLY trying to wrap my head around the 3 mph difference over 4500 rpm difference. Unless that clutch was slipping like hell in one of the runs. Anybdoy's guess at this point. Still trying to figure things out. |
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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 1, 2016 23:57:18 GMT -5
Are there any jetting changes being made here or simply adjusting air input? Seems adding some fuel plus additional air might be the magic formula.... No jet changes, just adjusting... rather trying different air extremes to see what is happening. Next week is where we will try holes in the air box. What we plan on doing is installing a brand new Honda OEM filter to replace the old dirty one, taping the airbox top off with some duct tape, poking about 4 or 5 holes to start with, then keep adding holes till we get to where we think it should be. Other then that, we will be also eliminating the oil/gas premix from the tank and running it with just the pump and 100% gas in the tank. There was alot of oil saturation on the probe when pulled from the muffler. This is indicating we have too much oil, which, in and of itself, can cause a lean condition. |
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Post by gsx600racer on Sept 2, 2016 0:01:46 GMT -5
It's all good. Got to admit, gotta be nice to have access to a dyno. The rest of us just piss off our neighbors blasting up an down the street trying to accomplish almost the same thing. LOL
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Post by ryan_ott on Sept 2, 2016 10:20:08 GMT -5
It's all good. Got to admit, gotta be nice to have access to a dyno. The rest of us just piss off our neighbors blasting up an down the street trying to accomplish almost the same thing. LOL I just laughed reading your comment as I can only imagine what my neighbors are thinking as my motor is turning close to 9,000 just to get out of the neighborhood. |
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Post by eclark5483 on Sept 2, 2016 10:56:39 GMT -5
One of the variables we are trying to determine but are unsure of, is what the system stoich pressure on a 2 stroke engine, specifically the Spree, should be at under normal conditions. Haven't got a clear answer from anybody yet except from Brandon (Scooter Swap Shop / graphite9) who said he is guessing maybe 12?? The stoich is what we are using to determine what will work best and that is why you see test 1 using filter and airbox lid with no holes. Stoich is obviously way too high at the start. I think it was something like 16 at idle and went down to 14 at WOT. In test 2, with just the filter, it was about 13 at idle, then climbed to 14 during WOT. This appeared to be where it should have been heading but stoich was (maybe) still too high?? In tests 4 and 5 with no filter, stoich was able to dip down into the high 12's range but HP and torque took a hit at about only half of what they were during test 2.
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