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Post by marshinman on May 30, 2011 6:14:55 GMT -5
If you run the scooter too long without using a Resistor plug you will eventually cause the CDI unit to burn up.
This may be easier to understand.
If you have a 12v 4amp battery and hook it up to a light bulb that is only designed for 12v 1amp it will cause it to burn out, but if you put a resistor in line to cut back the current it will not burn out. Your CDI works that same way.
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Post by son10s on May 31, 2011 5:41:12 GMT -5
The R just means it's a resistor plug. It's okay. All relays are metal like yours. They come with a rubber sleeve as pictured in the link below. Some people call it a solenoid but its really just a heavy duty switch. The start button would melt with all those amps so it triggers the relay and the relay closes completing the circuit to the starter motor. When you touch metal to the poles you complete the circuit yourself effectively bypassing the relay. The key doesn't even need to be turned on. www.pccmotor.com/relay-solenoid-honda-yamaha-dirt-bike-atv-crf50-5505001.htmlgood news! a friend is coming over with a charger and a multi-meter! if it turns out the relay is bad, are they universal--will any one work on my chinese bike?
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Post by 90GTVert on May 31, 2011 7:27:48 GMT -5
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Post by marshinman on May 31, 2011 16:43:17 GMT -5
Brent is on the right track. I would also suggest looking at your local ACE hardware store as some of them are now servicing scooter and at the least they would have a starter solenoid that is for a murray riding lawn mower and this will work also for a quick fix.
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Post by son10s on Jun 4, 2011 13:41:27 GMT -5
Had the battery tested at Advance and it checked out good. Traced as much of the wiring as I can get to from the bottom and sides since the rest of the body refuses to budge. Everything looks connected. Still getting no spark and starter button just clicks. Battery test with multimeter with key off 12.8, on depressing start button, i see 10.8 flash and then it goes to 12.5. Could it still be the battery? What should I try next??
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Post by marshinman on Jun 4, 2011 13:59:19 GMT -5
Follow your process of elimination, you verified the battery.
Next step if you have not done so, verify your starter relay. You can cross over the two terminals on the relay to bypass it. If the starter works then you know its the relay. If not then move on to the starter.
Remove the starter and use two jumper wires and connect the starter to the battery directly. If the starter does not turn then you know it is the starter. If the starter does turn then you have verified that all the major components of the starting system are in working order.
If all the components work then you have either a bad wire or a bad ignition switch or starter button.
Start with the major item and then work your way through. Its like a puzzle one piece at a time.
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Post by son10s on Jun 10, 2011 22:12:50 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 12, 2011 13:06:09 GMT -5
If you are checking the resistance (ohms) between the starter motor body or base and the frame or battery ground, you should be showing continuity (0). If you mean you're checking volts, if one probe is on the battery + and the other is on the starter's base or metal body you will hopefully see battery voltage of 12+VDC. Check all of your grounds to the battery, frame, and engine.
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Post by Fox on Jun 13, 2011 0:05:29 GMT -5
You say the relay sparked and nothing happened? The sparking is normal. Did you hold the screwdriver on there for a couple seconds or pull away when it sparked?
EZ starter test:
Hook jumpers from a car to the scoot. The minus (black) goes to the scooter's frame/engine and then touch the plus (red) to the relay terminal with the fat red wire running to the starter. If the starter is good it'll turn.
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Post by marshinman on Jun 13, 2011 4:37:16 GMT -5
Disconnect the starter by unplugging the wires that go to it. Now with the battery connected as it should be try and start the scooter and at the same time listen and you should hear the starter relay click if it is working, you can also place you hand on the black housing of the starter relay, you should feel it click. If you hear it or can feel it click then the relay is working. Connect your test meter to the plug wires going to the starter, not the wires that are connected to the starter. Set the meter on DC range 20v or higher and press the starter button as if you were going to start the scooter and watch the meter, when you press the starter button the meter should go up to about 13.5 to 14 volts and go back to 0 when you release the starter button. Now you can test the starter wires continuity, if you starter has two wires coming from it you can place one test lead of the meter on a body ground (metal) and then use the other test lead to test one wire coming from the starter at a time. Set the meter to ohms and if you are using a analog meter the needle should swing all the way over.
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Post by Fox on Jun 13, 2011 10:28:02 GMT -5
A bad relay will still click sometimes.
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Post by marshinman on Jun 13, 2011 17:24:42 GMT -5
Good point to make, I forgot all about that.
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Post by son10s on Jun 15, 2011 13:34:37 GMT -5
If you are checking the resistance (ohms) between the starter motor body or base and the frame or battery ground, you should be showing continuity (0). If you mean you're checking volts, if one probe is on the battery + and the other is on the starter's base or metal body you will hopefully see battery voltage of 12+VDC. Check all of your grounds to the battery, frame, and engine. I was checking volts with one probe on the starter and one on the ground, lol! Now I will try it the right way. Questions: Do I just hold the probe against the starter body with the other on the battery? Also, how do I use the multimeter to check the grounds?
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Post by son10s on Jun 15, 2011 13:37:38 GMT -5
You say the relay sparked and nothing happened? The sparking is normal. Did you hold the screwdriver on there for a couple seconds or pull away when it sparked? EZ starter test: Hook jumpers from a car to the scoot. The minus (black) goes to the scooter's frame/engine and then touch the plus (red) to the relay terminal with the fat red wire running to the starter. If the starter is good it'll turn. Funny you should ask. When I tried this test a few days before, it actually did act like it was starting. But many troubleshooting days later, it only sparks now. Not sure what that means.. Thanks for the EZ starter test suggestion! I will try it as soon as I can get somebody with a car and cables.
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Post by son10s on Jun 15, 2011 13:43:40 GMT -5
Disconnect the starter by unplugging the wires that go to it. Now with the battery connected as it should be try and start the scooter and at the same time listen and you should hear the starter relay click if it is working, you can also place you hand on the black housing of the starter relay, you should feel it click. If you hear it or can feel it click then the relay is working. Connect your test meter to the plug wires going to the starter, not the wires that are connected to the starter. Set the meter on DC range 20v or higher and press the starter button as if you were going to start the scooter and watch the meter, when you press the starter button the meter should go up to about 13.5 to 14 volts and go back to 0 when you release the starter button. Now you can test the starter wires continuity, if you starter has two wires coming from it you can place one test lead of the meter on a body ground (metal) and then use the other test lead to test one wire coming from the starter at a time. Set the meter to ohms and if you are using a analog meter the needle should swing all the way over. Ok, first of all, I have had no luck removing the starter wires at the starter itself, may have loctite or whatever on the screw. When I apply much force, the stopper moves like it may come out. When you say, connect the test leads to the plug wires but not at the starter, do you mean just anywhere along the wires? Having difficulty picturing this..
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