sumo
Scoot Junior
Posts: 6 
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Post by sumo on Sept 30, 2017 11:15:56 GMT -5
Hi guys,
Nice forum you have here.
Please, excuse my level of English because I`m a foreigner.
I`m bangin my head with some very mysterious case of stator overheating.
The scooter is Malaguti Crosser with Morini engine.
It has very simple ignition system without points, hall sensor or other trigger sensors.
Basically one single coil produces the power and the signal for the ignition, as I suppose you already know...
The coil and the cdi are all in one unit.
Here is the short story:
So, I bought the scooter and it died on the first day. After servicing it completely with spark plug, piston, cylinder, filters, gaskets etc. I realized the problem is electric and found that my stator source coil (only that one) was burned out and can`t deliver spark when the engine heats up.
I found that it was burned probably due to faulty spark plug cap.
Next I replaced the stator with new CDI unit, new wire and new spark plug cap.
When i started it and drove it around realized there was smoke coming out from the stator cover. I performed visual inspection and checked the data and it was ok. So I supposed that it had some kind of oil on the coils which had to burn out. I drove it two more days when the source coil completely burned and died in the middle of the road...I thought that it was fake...
So I ordered a new set of stator with flywheel. The flywheel did not fitted because of wrong magnets position (which sets the ignition timing). Installed only the stator and again saw a smoke coming out, drove one day and then disassembled the flywheel to see the coils.
The source coil was black and burned again so I just throw it away in the pile of stators...
Next I ordered a new stator (haha) with new CDI unit (haha) and installed the new flywheel by manually adjusting the ignition timing by removing the crankshaft key of the flywheel. Again with no success- the stator was smoking...
I tried to disconnect and isolate the ignition system completely from the electrical system. I ran new ground and phase directly from the stator and nothing - it smoked again.
Found that I was having a resistor plug with resistor plug cap so I installed a non-resistor spark plug.
I measured that the cdi draws between 150mA to 200mA and a guy from another forum told me that it was kind of much.
But I can`t find anywhere any information about how much current a CDI draws.
I really cannot think of anything else that can mess the ignition system it is practically brand new.
I`ll be glad if anybody comes up with any idea of why the source coil is overheating ?
Reagrds
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Post by tortoise2 on Sept 30, 2017 13:11:01 GMT -5
excuse my level of English because I`m a foreigner.
Zero experience with the Morini engine . . just wanted to compliment your EXCELLENT English! Very encouraging to read a query with significant troubleshooting efforts . . as compared to the typical insufficient-information "my scooter" postings by the cannabis-infused millennial slacker crowd! |
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Post by jeff84 on Sept 30, 2017 19:56:14 GMT -5
dude, my scooter wont start. previous owner did a lot of go fast mods, where do I start?
sumo, I'm not poking fun at you. rather replying to tortoise2's post. your English is pretty good. what is your first language?
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Post by ThaiGyro on Oct 1, 2017 3:20:13 GMT -5
Maybe I'm too tired to think clearly...but it seems as though somewhere in your wiring system you have a ground or excessive current draw. I have not experienced this problem, but consistently "smoking" stators must be from heat generated by too much flow. The surprising thing is that you don't appear to have other issues. I have seen bad wire insulation creating a "spark jump"...or a battery with a terminal grounding intermittently. If you have the correct part numbers, try measuring clearances. Rotor to stator? Bad bearing causing excessive crank play? Maybe even a HID light shorting and causing overload? Sorry, trying to think but nothing happens... I do not know your scoot well. Is your system single phase DC or 3 phase? Or do you have AC charging & ignition? I have some friends who worked with these people: racetechelectric.com/ft-750-stators.htmlThey have some good troubleshooting guides on that page! Might help narrow down and focus your investigation. Good luck! FYI: We are all foreigners, I think. I am Dutch/German+English/Native American by ancestry...living in Thailand. Your writing is near top level US English. No apology required. |
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sumo
Scoot Junior
Posts: 6
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Post by sumo on Oct 1, 2017 15:07:51 GMT -5
excuse my level of English because I`m a foreigner.
Zero experience with the Morini engine . . just wanted to compliment your EXCELLENT English! Very encouraging to read a query with significant troubleshooting efforts . . as compared to the typical insufficient-information "my scooter" postings by the cannabis-infused millennial slacker crowd! Thank you, sir!  Since you asked I`m from Bulgaria - southeastern Europe. I`vе read every single thread, article and website about stators, magnetos, failures, causes, rewinding them and everything. I can get my self a diploma in the field  What I`m doing right now is just riding until it dies. Today I readjusted the carb because I`m doing some break-in of the engine and it was lean , maybe overheating. Strangely I didn`t notice smoke...Which is unusual for me, I have got used to see some smoke every day. I made around 40km with that stator smoking. The first one made 100km until total burnout. In the meantime I am preparing to do my own rewind of the source coil with high grade insulation wire. While in the garage I inspected very closely the different wires of the different stators. I`m observing that probably the aftermarket stators are with poor quality wire than the original one. I do not have the precise equipment to be sure but it looks like the original wire is 0.15mm and the aftermarket 0.13mm. Also the insulation of the original is more durable and hard to scrape as opposed to the new ones. Don`t know maybe they just can`t handle it. I will keep you updated soon as I got something new  Regards P.S. Yes I have AC ignition and charging. They are independent. Grounds are good. Bearing are good. No HID lights or other mods. Everything is stock. |
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Post by 2stroked on Oct 1, 2017 20:12:34 GMT -5
sumo Probably an ignorant question, but with the stand alone ignition coil, his is your kill switch wired? If its faulty or grounded to a wrong point would it cause this issue? In my mind it looks like a dead short, with your ignition power being partially shunted away? Meaning, is the kill switch wired as original, or has it been modified or replaced with after market switches? Also,in the way I see this, could be wrong, but the way your stator and ignition is, if someone replaced the controls, or any part of the wiring harness with after market components, could that cause the burning of the source coils?
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sumo
Scoot Junior
Posts: 6
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Post by sumo on Oct 3, 2017 12:35:20 GMT -5
I don`t have separate kill switch. It`s the ignition key. What he is doing is actually grounding the coil without separating it from the ignition when turned off. If it was grounded anywhere it just would not start. Everything is stock , I`ve re-done one of the wires because they were poorly soldered (not soldered at all). I suppose the previous owner burned some wires or something. Also I soldered some new connectors. The controls are stock. I suppose the flywheel was replaced before. I replaced it again last weekend and lost the crankshaft key The stator looked stock before replacing it trizillion times. Also replaced the CDI twice. It was me who replaced everything after it burned So I don`t see any smoke coming out , but I found that if I light it from underneath with my phone I can see it smoking slightly... I am almost sure that those stators are fake.  |
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Post by AtariGuy on Oct 4, 2017 22:22:00 GMT -5
I have to agree with 2strokd on the kill switch. Have you checked all the wiring from the ignition? Or another thought, since the kill switch was removed, there might be some cut wires left behind that are shorting or grounding. Just a rusty thought.
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Post by ThomasTPFL on Oct 5, 2017 15:12:29 GMT -5
Maybe I'm too tired to think clearly...but it seems as though somewhere in your wiring system you have a ground or excessive current draw. I have not experienced this problem, but consistently "smoking" stators must be from heat generated by too much flow. The surprising thing is that you don't appear to have other issues. I have seen bad wire insulation creating a "spark jump"...or a battery with a terminal grounding intermittently. If you have the correct part numbers, try measuring clearances. Rotor to stator? Bad bearing causing excessive crank play? Maybe even a HID light shorting and causing overload? Sorry, trying to think but nothing happens... I do not know your scoot well. Is your system single phase DC or 3 phase? Or do you have AC charging & ignition? I have some friends who worked with these people: racetechelectric.com/ft-750-stators.htmlThey have some good troubleshooting guides on that page! Might help narrow down and focus your investigation. Good luck! FYI: We are all foreigners, I think. I am Dutch/German+English/Native American by ancestry...living in Thailand. Your writing is near top level US English. No apology required. It sounds the same as the Derbi system to me. Derbi, on their Morini based scooter engines and on some of their moped/noped engines, used a TCI, transistor controlled ignition, not CDI. All the ignition box has is a lead from the stator and a ground, then the high tension lead to the plug. Everytime the stator polarity flips the coil fires. Tomos used a similar set up. As to the original poster.... I'm wondering if when you changed stators you got one intended for a different Morini based engine? That would definitely cause some weirdness. I see suppliers list things to fit TGB Morini engines that I know will not, or at least not without modification. You could have fallen prey to something like that? |
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Post by lostforawhile on Oct 5, 2017 19:21:58 GMT -5
yea I don't think they use a high voltage coil on the stator I think it's low voltage
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Post by lostforawhile on Oct 5, 2017 19:23:56 GMT -5
does the stator look like this?  |
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Post by honda4life on Oct 7, 2017 23:42:30 GMT -5
What about voltage stabilizer?
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Post by lostforawhile on Oct 8, 2017 0:13:20 GMT -5
are you sure somehow the lighting circuit isn't connected to the high voltage winding on the coil? shorting it out, would only shut down the engine, the lower voltage windings can produce more current, I'm not sure on your setup, but on a standard stator, the hight voltage winding is shorted by the kill switch, which simply kills the ignition, without damaging the stator. the two pin connection on a standard cdi, one is high voltage to the stator, the other if you measure it is the same voltage, but when grounded cuts of power to the cdi, this doesn't cause any damage,because the charge coil is wired for high voltage, low current, the small amount of amperage it produces isn't enough to do damage,as once it shorts the engine stops
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sumo
Scoot Junior
Posts: 6
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Post by sumo on Oct 12, 2017 2:17:36 GMT -5
Hi everybody, Yep it probably is TCI ignition. I replaced the stator with the exact model. No, it`s not that one on the picture, mine is with 3 wires. I am aware that there are different types of generators for the model. The voltage stabilizer is replaced anyway. The only way the lighting system is connected to the high voltage system is thru the grounding wires. Actually it produces a lot of current - around 100-150mA. That is my main question - What current do the ignition draw from the generator? Currently my stator seems to start melting after 170km riding, which is my new personal record |
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