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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 27, 2018 2:28:42 GMT -5
here are some comparison pics I took of a few barrels I have. from left to right : 85-86' honda spree nq50, 83-84 aero nb50 (ab07 motor), 79-81 express nc50, jdm af05 85-92, bbk for honda vision nb50 and Peugeot.   here is spree ab07 nc50  here aero af05 nc50 aero ab07  here is spree af05 and nc50  |
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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 27, 2018 22:51:50 GMT -5
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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 29, 2018 6:01:53 GMT -5
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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 29, 2018 6:09:11 GMT -5
bearings for each engine are: ab07 (2) 6004, nc50 and hobbits are also (2) 6004 honda # 91001148013, af05e are 6203 f/w honda #91001GM4033 side and 6204w12 (20x47x12) var side, af18 and I belive af16 are non common 16304 honda pn (2) 91005GBL003
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Post by harleyracer59 on Jul 30, 2018 17:49:43 GMT -5
I gotta make a list of the seal #s so I can add them here. also anyone who has honda part pics or info to add to this, or a question or needed measurement please feel free to ask or contribute. thanks to all looking
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 22, 2018 18:38:36 GMT -5
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Post by 190mech on Aug 22, 2018 19:28:26 GMT -5
I think the straight cut is the "thing",they even change the angle of the straight slot..I tend to agree as a stepped slot allows for a 'shift',but straight allows the pipe/cylinder to smoothly increase its power range..
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 22, 2018 20:05:04 GMT -5
I think the straight cut is the "thing",they even change the angle of the straight slot..I tend to agree as a stepped slot allows for a 'shift',but straight allows the pipe/cylinder to smoothly increase its power range.. I 100% agree with you 190. that's why even though theyre the dame diameter, I like the dio straight cut grooves. I would have just switched outter halves except the dio slider/ groove cut part are different diameters. the af05 and ab07 are the same but the dio is smaller. pics to come. all clutches, clutch nuts, contra springs are all interchangeable, the ab07 has more clutch material on the shoes, but its also considerably heavier. and springs are a mm longer length |
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Post by ThaiGyro on Aug 22, 2018 22:41:58 GMT -5
The exact reason I swapped the Gyro setup for a Dio CVT. No more stepped "shift". Far easier to mess with pipes and tuning.
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 23, 2018 0:51:44 GMT -5
The exact reason I swapped the Gyro setup for a Dio CVT. No more stepped "shift". Far easier to mess with pipes and tuning. youre lucky! you have a variator and Posi traction. I wish I could do that with my gyro. we never got your type of engine here in the US. we got the peg leg (1 power wheel), 2 speed, 3 bolt intake manifold, horizontal engine...  goofy motor all around. |
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Post by ThaiGyro on Aug 23, 2018 7:27:33 GMT -5
Harley...the OEM Gyro is a Honda abortion, gone wild. The AF01-E and three wheel diff are kind of shit! The clutch? not so good, but with 4.7 hp...who cares? The "limited slip" diff, is just that...limited until drive failure...Hehe! The good news? It will still run and gun. Fails over 8 or so hp.
Strap on a decent CVT and pipe and ignition and carb setup? 4.7 is easily 7.5+. Many think this engine has it's limits. I am not in that camp. There is much potential to go further. (my current engine is getting close to 10.0 on dyno runs...)
Funny thing here...most go for top end horsepower... I tune for "useable" torque. Simple and fun. Not as hard as OMG engines. I like "sideways" bikes and cars....the torque that is functional and controllable to get out of shape and kick some ass. My Gyro is designed to pull wheelies! I don't like wheelies, personally. I am selling technology here.
FYI: I had a USA Mazda Miata, 1.8 that produced 180 hp..with near 110,000 miles...a Honda XL600/NSR framed racer that would hit near 140mph...Dodge ram 350 Cummins 5.9L HO that had 670ft. lbs of torque and still got over 20 mpg!
It is all in the design envelope...just sayin'. After market engineering is the art of extracting that potential. 95+ percent of sales are designed to fool you into purchase...buy what "sounds" bad ass, or looks super good.
I am old and have never been fooled using my own money.
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 23, 2018 14:50:38 GMT -5
hey TG, im with you there! I flat track (speedway) race a 55 KH Harley flat head. its super fun sliding a couple 100lbs Harley around a dirt track making left turns with the front locked to the right, spraying the crowd with dirt pellets! lol  yours started life with one of the tb09? horizontal motors right? you switched it for the vertical dio looking engine? ive looked over the schematics on my drive system and the only way I can see running power to both wheels would be mounting a centrifugal clutch to the flywheel and connecting that to the axle some how. also don't think I can modify a cvt to fit where the 2 speed currently resides, but I know they make performance stuff for the 2 speed urban expresses. so eventually I might try to throw some springs and such at it and see what sticks  but theres the last issue I haven't even got an idea for a solution yet, that's no kick starter on the nn50 gyro/ just. that sucks. I wonder if a pull string starter can be modified to fit flywheel, but then there goes my posi axle idea because they both involve attaching to flywheel. id love to get my hands on one of those vertical gyro engines. saw one on fleabay but it was 600$ usd shipped ouch |
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 23, 2018 18:10:29 GMT -5
Harley...the OEM Gyro is a Honda abortion, gone wild. The AF01-E and three wheel diff are kind of shit! The clutch? not so good, but with 4.7 hp...who cares? The "limited slip" diff, is just that...limited until drive failure...Hehe! The good news? It will still run and gun. Fails over 8 or so hp. Strap on a decent CVT and pipe and ignition and carb setup? 4.7 is easily 7.5+. Many think this engine has it's limits. I am not in that camp. There is much potential to go further. (my current engine is getting close to 10.0 on dyno runs...) Funny thing here...most go for top end horsepower... I tune for "useable" torque. Simple and fun. Not as hard as OMG engines. I like "sideways" bikes and cars....the torque that is functional and controllable to get out of shape and kick some ass. My Gyro is designed to pull wheelies! I don't like wheelies, personally. I am selling technology here. FYI: I had a USA Mazda Miata, 1.8 that produced 180 hp..with near 110,000 miles...a Honda XL600/NSR framed racer that would hit near 140mph...Dodge ram 350 Cummins 5.9L HO that had 670ft. lbs of torque and still got over 20 mpg! It is all in the design envelope...just sayin'. After market engineering is the art of extracting that potential. 95+ percent of sales are designed to fool you into purchase...buy what "sounds" bad ass, or looks super good. I am old and have never been fooled using my own money. also TG, next time you have your variator out can you take some measurements? I read somewhere the ab07 and gyro use the same variator boss the dimensions for the ab07 are; 15mm ID 22mm OD length is 33mm variator OD=82.9mm. let me know what you have when you get a chance. thanks  |
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Post by ThaiGyro on Aug 26, 2018 22:09:30 GMT -5
yours started life with one of the tb09? horizontal motors right? you switched it for the vertical dio looking engine? ive looked over the schematics on my drive system and the only way I can see running power to both wheels would be mounting a centrifugal clutch to the flywheel and connecting that to the axle some how. also don't think I can modify a cvt to fit where the 2 speed currently resides, but I know they make performance stuff for the 2 speed urban expresses. so eventually I might try to throw some springs and such at it and see what sticks but theres the last issue I haven't even got an idea for a solution yet, that's no kick starter on the nn50 gyro/ just. that sucks. I wonder if a pull string starter can be modified to fit flywheel, but then there goes my posi axle idea because they both involve attaching to flywheel. id love to get my hands on one of those vertical gyro engines. saw one on fleabay but it was 600$ usd shipped ouch
Hi Harley, the 2T Gyros from early eighties to '94, had TA-01E engines. The rear part being an externally driven limited slip differential. They didn't have a CVT as we know them today, but a sort of 2 speed, stepped affair. The weak side drive, (slip side...) was not designed to take much abuse. Too many teeth, too small, (IMO) so they tend to bend/strip with abuse or power increases. We are slowly working on an improvement or a posi. Don't laugh...a semi floating porcelain disc maybe. Much to do here.
The TA-01E and TA-02 were vertical cylinder engines, with the cylinder mounted at a negative 15 degrees. That is why most ppl think that you cannot buy a pipe. The exhaust port is small and funny angle. I TIG weld my own now, but used to get TIG stuff from a friend. (When I lived in CA and MT) Therefore, my first pipe was a beat up DIO pipe. The Gyro pipe issue is that a "good" design means installation requires lifting the engine on the right side, because you cannot snake the chamber head pipe through the opening. That is on a Gyro UP, which has an upper/lower rear sub-frame. Th Gyro X and Gyro Canopy just have plastic covers on top of the engine, so easier to mount a scooter type exhaust.
My research shows nearly all the same specs as a '83-'84 Honda Aero, but obviously a single drive case. The '82 MB-5 has similar designs although no real adaptable parts. (+15deg. cylinder, Dio-like crank, but 14 mm piston pin) It was 7 hp in stock trim. Many here in Thailand, so my engine test pipe is a slightly modified MB-5 pipe, as a hp and tuning benchmark.
My Dio research came up with little, except the older non-US Dio's. MY CVT is from a Dio with the same crank shaft diameter, the clutch end was from an SE50 Elite. Just from parts laying around the village here. My friends Gyro has a Taiwan made CVT, that he said was from a Kymco. It works well! Shim aligned on clutch.
My engine looks just like this above, except the rear drive end. These listed are all 39mm by 41.4, so different crank than a Gyro or Aero. They all have 12mm piston pins, while ours have 10mm. In Japan, they use cranks and water pumper cylinders for Dio's, but too much work.
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Post by harleyracer59 on Aug 27, 2018 21:10:24 GMT -5
hey TG, so your motor is a 40x39.3? do the transfer ports look like the ab07 variated and the early gyro/ just / road fox/tg50/ tb10 centrifugal clutch 2 speed? ab07  nn50/ tb09  what gyro is this for?  |
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goofy motor all around. 
