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Post by x7rocks on Jul 29, 2018 12:41:41 GMT -5
Pitobread,good information! I won't be using the ali express ecu as i had many issues with quality control with previous prototypes :(the support for technical work was also non existent. Slight update, scooters lowend acceleration is phenomenal! Throttle is also consistent. But now setting values above 7,000 rpms i believe 350 fair for the community for a full efi kit? Opinions are welcome as i love the community of scooting and tuning and want to be more than just a hobby. I will also offer efi for gy6 engines as well for around the same price.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 29, 2018 13:08:34 GMT -5
I guess to put $350 into perspective a bit, at least for me, you could think of it like this : Yes, that's a chunk of cash for a small scoot, but how many 2T riders on this forum have a $100-150 carburetor and then another $100 or more in jets, needles, throttle valves, choke cable, etc...? With that perspective, I could certainly see it being worth it for some as long as it ends up working as well as hoped.
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Post by pitobread on Jul 29, 2018 14:05:35 GMT -5
Problem is, without a dyno it's near impossible to tune well. Hell even with a car you can leave your laptop running on the seat next to you and tune away. But even that is hard, as there are many variables playing against you on public roads.
Good luck holding a laptop in your hand and scaling maps while trying to navigate with the other on a scooter!
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 29, 2018 14:20:54 GMT -5
Problem is, without a dyno it's near impossible to tune well. Hell even with a car you can leave your laptop running on the seat next to you and tune away. But even that is hard, as there are many variables playing against you on public roads. Good luck holding a laptop in your hand and scaling maps while trying to navigate with the other on a scooter! Im contacting a local dyno just for this occasion , otherwise a wide band will help on dialing on appropriate afrs. But i 100% agree the dyno will be the best route.
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 29, 2018 14:23:07 GMT -5
I guess to put $350 into perspective a bit, at least for me, you could think of it like this : Yes, that's a chunk of cash for a small scoot, but how many 2T riders on this forum have a $100-150 carburetor and then another $100 or more in jets, needles, throttle valves, choke cable, etc...? With that perspective, I could certainly see it being worth it for some as long as it ends up working as well as hoped. I appreciate the feed back sir! And with that perspective it does add a more convenient factor with f.i
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 29, 2018 14:35:56 GMT -5
it does add a more convenient factor with f.i Sort of. It's harder to setup, harder to tune, more demand on the electrical system, and more difficult to troubleshoot with more to go wrong. When everything is up and running though, it should be really nice.
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 29, 2018 14:51:22 GMT -5
it does add a more convenient factor with f.i Sort of. It's harder to setup, harder to tune, more demand on the electrical system, and more difficult to troubleshoot with more to go wrong. When everything is up and running though, it should be really nice. Surprisingly i have had good results with a hoca inner rotor feeding the system a proper amount of current. With the ecu reading 12.3 at an idle 1400rpm If the bike is a stock 50cc engine i will load up a base map that should be plug and play. Along with an instruction manual showing the basics needed to get going. So far my teething issues arise from having a mid race setup using the base 50cc map,but slowly upping the map cells is making incredible strides in how the bike is acting on the road,with way more torque than i remember carb'd! . Sadly i had to stop tuning for today,as florida afternoon lightning and rain has made their appearance.
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Post by jackrides on Jul 29, 2018 15:34:36 GMT -5
This looks fantastic! A lot of reading ahead.
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Post by boostcrzy on Jul 29, 2018 17:11:28 GMT -5
in for more....I have a dyno....I can do ALL of the tuning/testing you need.
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 29, 2018 17:40:45 GMT -5
in for more....I have a dyno....I can do ALL of the tuning/testing you need. If you're near orlando leta schedule something
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Post by boostcrzy on Jul 29, 2018 19:22:10 GMT -5
in for more....I have a dyno....I can do ALL of the tuning/testing you need. If you're near orlando leta schedule something I’m in west palm beach! Not too far!
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 29, 2018 20:39:07 GMT -5
If you're near orlando leta schedule something I’m in west palm beach! Not too far! quite the drive. But worth it !I'll keep in touch
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Post by ThaiGyro on Jul 30, 2018 5:03:59 GMT -5
Another from "Nath88"; Hi All, Thought I’d drop by to share the findings of my YZ250 EFI project. It has a 2009 CRF450R 50mm throttle body, 3D printed polyurethane throttle boot to a Boyesen RAD valve. Fuel system is returnless with a Walbro GSL-414 pump controlled by a Madhu PWM pump controller/pressure sensor. Fuel filter is a Sytec mini bullet. Injector is the CRF450R 12 hole injector (440cc/min @ 4 bar). It’s controlled with a Microsquirt V3 running MSextra code, triggered by a 20-1 tooth wheel welded to the ignition rotor and a crank sensor from a YFM350. I think with some tuning I should be able to get the transition pretty much seamless. At the moment I'm working on getting the fuel table just right around the transition area, then I'll work on the switch threshold and multiplier values. That said, it's pretty decent already, but I'm a perfectionist. Nathan I like this approach...we have not spent as much time, but seems as though our issues are very similar to "Nath88". Our first weak tests were mapped specific to pipe specs and box specs and crank case timing and such. We have not seen the throttle issues as your first post...under 25%, but that sounds like a race motor pipe issue to me. My TZ's and RS's had the same problem with CR or Lectron carbs. We do have the same problems with some run-on while trying to cruise at constant throttle, so the transition issue is a common issue it seems. That is where we believe multi mapping/overlap mapping/transition mapping come to play.Our next attempt...when we can get our shite right...is to install a second MAP sensor. We have one in the airbox and are going to install one in the crankcase. Nath88 above gave the location ...nice! I will surely steal some other thoughts from here...the 12 hole injector would be far better than the cheap-o we have tried. We are moving towards some complex mapping strategies as well. The reason for my air box interest comes more for FI aid than carb setups. Multiple injectors...mounting into the airflow...all good to think about.
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 30, 2018 12:19:05 GMT -5
Another from "Nath88"; Hi All, Thought I’d drop by to share the findings of my YZ250 EFI project. It has a 2009 CRF450R 50mm throttle body, 3D printed polyurethane throttle boot to a Boyesen RAD valve. Fuel system is returnless with a Walbro GSL-414 pump controlled by a Madhu PWM pump controller/pressure sensor. Fuel filter is a Sytec mini bullet. Injector is the CRF450R 12 hole injector (440cc/min @ 4 bar). It’s controlled with a Microsquirt V3 running MSextra code, triggered by a 20-1 tooth wheel welded to the ignition rotor and a crank sensor from a YFM350. I think with some tuning I should be able to get the transition pretty much seamless. At the moment I'm working on getting the fuel table just right around the transition area, then I'll work on the switch threshold and multiplier values. That said, it's pretty decent already, but I'm a perfectionist. Nathan I like this approach...we have not spent as much time, but seems as though our issues are very similar to "Nath88". Our first weak tests were mapped specific to pipe specs and box specs and crank case timing and such. We have not seen the throttle issues as your first post...under 25%, but that sounds like a race motor pipe issue to me. My TZ's and RS's had the same problem with CR or Lectron carbs. We do have the same problems with some run-on while trying to cruise at constant throttle, so the transition issue is a common issue it seems. That is where we believe multi mapping/overlap mapping/transition mapping come to play.Our next attempt...when we can get our shite right...is to install a second MAP sensor. We have one in the airbox and are going to install one in the crankcase. Nath88 above gave the location ...nice! I will surely steal some other thoughts from here...the 12 hole injector would be far better than the cheap-o we have tried. We are moving towards some complex mapping strategies as well. The reason for my air box interest comes more for FI aid than carb setups. Multiple injectors...mounting into the airflow...all good to think about. From my understanding of efi systems from tuning my own boosted vehicles along with a one on one tuning session with motech,dual map sensor will further complicate things, multi mapping is useful in the aspect of wanting to change a tune,sure. But im going for a single map for a more simplified approach. Efi can be a big thing to many,im trying to simplify it so anyone can plug and play similar to the miata group with megasquirt.
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Post by pitobread on Jul 30, 2018 19:52:47 GMT -5
Staged injection ThaiGyro. Using smaller injectors to aid with low throttle, and larger ones for higher RPM/load
Also using downstream or fountain injection can help, which can be seen in most modern sport bikes, using one set pre and one set post throttle to help with all sorts of weird transitional issues and allows for a better dispersion of fuel.
*Cue self plug*
Here is my fountain injection Toyota corolla from a few years back. Moreso done just to see if I could, not to fix a problem in this case. Worked great! No fires!
Multi Maps are a evil necessity with a lot of things. ITB tuning relies heavily on it to get any good driveability. Sure you can get it driving without it but it's not great as anything above 30% throttle the engine thinks it's full load. but a Multi MAP or TPS/MAP blend is marginally more difficult to setup, but once you drive it, it's night and day different.
I've never ran a vacuum gauge on a 2 stroke before would be curious to get pre and post reed valve info on one with different throttle openings and load.
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