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Post by ThaiGyro on Jul 31, 2018 4:41:54 GMT -5
Hahaha...smaller injectors? I think we have the smallest we could find. It was from a 125cc 4T that has about the equal hp to our test engines.(+/-) 9 to 12 ponies. I think the bigger singles use the same one, up to 250cc. I would get a number from it, but I am away from the home front/shop/fun business...I like spending money better.
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Post by x7rocks on Jul 31, 2018 12:26:40 GMT -5
Staged injection ThaiGyro. Using smaller injectors to aid with low throttle, and larger ones for higher RPM/load Also using downstream or fountain injection can help, which can be seen in most modern sport bikes, using one set pre and one set post throttle to help with all sorts of weird transitional issues and allows for a better dispersion of fuel. *Cue self plug* Here is my fountain injection Toyota corolla from a few years back. Moreso done just to see if I could, not to fix a problem in this case. Worked great! No fires! Multi Maps are a evil necessity with a lot of things. ITB tuning relies heavily on it to get any good driveability. Sure you can get it driving without it but it's not great as anything above 30% throttle the engine thinks it's full load. but a Multi MAP or TPS/MAP blend is marginally more difficult to setup, but once you drive it, it's night and day different. I've never ran a vacuum gauge on a 2 stroke before would be curious to get pre and post reed valve info on one with different throttle openings and load. Ecu tuning has come a long way to fix some of the issues of needing smaller injectors, a single injector seems to work perfectly fine for this mid racebuild. So far the pulse width is not reaching the max threshold,so i should have a lot of room to play with fuel adjustment wise.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Aug 1, 2018 5:15:45 GMT -5
This is where i disagree, im trying to enter the market for 350 to control timing without the need of a 36 wheel pickup,or the need of a 500 dollar inner rotor kit from malossi,or stage6 racing.(im also tuning via mac) What you're asking for is a simple map switch, on this ecu you're not going to get that as that is something that will rise up cost,(the ability to switch without going into tuning software i mean)im trying to keep it simple. But it will be a nice touch for options!
Not exactly sure what you refer to as "350"...I do agree with your thinking. The need for a many pointed wheel is quite a pain. I too am not into inner rotors. I have a 90 watt, full wave charging system...cost me 10 minutes of soldering, plus bolt up time. Thought about using it to mount a pick-up...hmmm.
I am not, however talking about a simple mechanical switch. We can store many maps. I want to access those with sensors and software. TPS...MAP...MAT...maybe more for fine control. I don't want to physically switch anything. Gas and go with intelligent software that can select the proper map. Cold start, cruise (economy) WOT (full on pipe tuned), acceleration and deceleration loads?
Not sure about all that mess, but it is what needs sorting for us. My car does this already. With past tuning, we get 6.2 Liter/100km in economy loading. (38mpg) A "normal" Ford Focus gets 34mpg on a good day. In power mode, we have made 168 dyno hp. The North American models may do 160 if treated similar. (fuel differences?) The point is, for our needs, we just drive it. We do not fuss with switching anything...the ECU/PCM whatever, does it all based on the above TPS/MAP/MAT. It isn't quite "seamless" as I would prefer, but not too slow to respond. The big issue with the car is the gearbox and shifting which seems to upset the PCM power brain. Less of a problem with a CVT.
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Post by x7rocks on Aug 1, 2018 9:50:55 GMT -5
This is where i disagree, im trying to enter the market for 350 to control timing without the need of a 36 wheel pickup,or the need of a 500 dollar inner rotor kit from malossi,or stage6 racing.(im also tuning via mac) What you're asking for is a simple map switch, on this ecu you're not going to get that as that is something that will rise up cost,(the ability to switch without going into tuning software i mean)im trying to keep it simple. But it will be a nice touch for options!
Not exactly sure what you refer to as "350"...I do agree with your thinking. The need for a many pointed wheel is quite a pain. I too am not into inner rotors. I have a 90 watt, full wave charging system...cost me 10 minutes of soldering, plus bolt up time. Thought about using it to mount a pick-up...hmmm.
I am not, however talking about a simple mechanical switch. We can store many maps. I want to access those with sensors and software. TPS...MAP...MAT...maybe more for fine control. I don't want to physically switch anything. Gas and go with intelligent software that can select the proper map. Cold start, cruise (economy) WOT (full on pipe tuned), acceleration and deceleration loads?
Not sure about all that mess, but it is what needs sorting for us. My car does this already. With past tuning, we get 6.2 Liter/100km in economy loading. (38mpg) A "normal" Ford Focus gets 34mpg on a good day. In power mode, we have made 168 dyno hp. The North American models may do 160 if treated similar. (fuel differences?) The point is, for our needs, we just drive it. We do not fuss with switching anything...the ECU/PCM whatever, does it all based on the above TPS/MAP/MAT. It isn't quite "seamless" as I would prefer, but not too slow to respond. The big issue with the car is the gearbox and shifting which seems to upset the PCM power brain. Less of a problem with a CVT.
350$ for the price of the kit shipped,ah i see what you mean.the ecu will have easy access and come with software,and the tuning so no physical changes will be necessary,as everything necessary for tuning and adjustment software wise will be included.
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Post by x7rocks on Aug 18, 2018 7:12:36 GMT -5
Testing is on hold till i find a replacement gas tank for a aprilia sr50.sadly they are no longer in production so this has been one hell of a snag in testing this system out.
But cold start enrichment is damn near perfect with a consistent first kick start,along with correcting time with cranking being at 10 degrees,then bump up to 15degrees advanced at idle.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Aug 26, 2018 1:37:02 GMT -5
Have you looked at Ecotrons www.ecotrons.com/I have seen this installed and it worked decent , and they sell all the parts ... A couple of shops are advertising the Ecotrons as something they designed until you ask a few questions about it then they told me the truth ! lol
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Post by ThaiGyro on Sept 5, 2018 3:03:51 GMT -5
This is where i disagree, im trying to enter the market for 350 to control timing without the need of a 36 wheel pickup,or the need of a 500 dollar inner rotor kit from malossi,or stage6 racing.(im also tuning via mac) What you're asking for is a simple map switch, on this ecu you're not going to get that as that is something that will rise up cost,(the ability to switch without going into tuning software i mean)im trying to keep it simple. But it will be a nice touch for options! Hi Rocks. I understand you point, really! A simple map switch is not what I am looking for, at all. We did that more than 10 years ago, using the HIGH/LOW beam switch. (Nothing to add cost)
We are developing smart software that can pull the proper map data. Yes, sensor needy. My test engine, for example, has two MAP sensors, one at either side of the "filter-in-the-box". We are testing one under the piston to measure crankcase pressure as well.
I want software that can adapt, not a passenger with tuning knowledge. To date, we have not needed a fancy pickup, (36+ toothed device). The ignition firing data can be inferred and adjusted. Cold, accel, decel, all other sensed condition changes. The issue at this point is rapid robustness of those, otherwise, tiny adjustments.
Yes, it is not easy...
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Post by ThaiGyro on Sept 8, 2018 3:19:50 GMT -5
Here is an additional brain nugget: We have recently been in contact with API Tech, here in Thailand, close to home. The owner and lead developer is a Japanese gentleman, a former HRC race bike tuner. A main brain behind Honda's prior generation race controllers.
He is now doing his own, and they are working well. His outperform the others on Dyno tests. Not two stroke friendly, however. More to come...
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Post by x7rocks on Sept 21, 2018 20:12:18 GMT -5
Update.ordered a larger injector. And things are now looking more promising.going to go to a dyno in two weeks and see what can we get with this setup.
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Post by x7rocks on Nov 12, 2018 13:58:51 GMT -5
Another update. Found a replacement tank, and installed a larger injector for the aprilias 13k plus rpms.
So far so good! Bike starts on first start every time,now setting parameters for cold start enrichment.
I may be looking for someone with a stockish 49cc 2 stroke to try this setup on.with a smaller 19mm throttle body.
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Post by x7rocks on Dec 12, 2018 21:09:30 GMT -5
Been slow for updating.but trying to find a local dyno that wont charge an arm and a leg. If anyone would like a video of how it is now before i start installing 2 fast parts let me know
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