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Post by kraine on Jul 31, 2018 22:39:42 GMT -5
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Post by jstich on Jul 31, 2018 23:20:55 GMT -5
 If you don't have much experience on scoot engines you should do one performance mod at a time to see how it affects the scoot.The plug and cdi/coil can be put on right away. The open filter may make it leaner so you have to increase the jetting. One performance mod at a time can save a lot of tail chasing later.
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chino
Scoot Enthusiast
What status?
Posts: 164
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Post by chino on Jul 31, 2018 23:49:27 GMT -5
Well it looks like you have a good plan going. I have the same bbk and cam,modded stock air box,gutted muffler,stock coil and cdi,jetted carb runs great.getting the cvt tuned to your bodyweight and riding style is as important as the engine mods,maybe more so ? IMO.skip the performance coil and cdi, both are junk,if you want a orange cdi and coil? spray paint is cheap and won't leave you stranded..trust me,I know.. Also can't go wrong having extra gaskets.
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Post by AtariGuy on Aug 1, 2018 1:29:46 GMT -5
Bbk, cam, plug, carb, and cvt tuning - skip the k&n style pod filter and the "performance coil/cdi" (those bits are garbage, pod filter will be a nightmare to jet your carb to). Thats the recipe for a good start
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Aug 1, 2018 8:34:27 GMT -5
I would suggest you look at this kit www.scooterdomain.com/big-bore-kit-50mm-100cc-upgrade-for-50cc-139qmb-by-no-qmbhk302397.htmlI like it because it comes with the non EGR head WITH larger valves. They are sending you the the rocker arm assembly that works with their kit, no need to worry about if you have 69 mm valves or 64 mm valves I have only limited exposure to parts for these little guys, but both the aftermarket CDIs I have installed for a friend made preformance worse. Zero to twenty five took longer by an advrage of a second and a half with the “racking” cdis and the bike lost one mph off top speed. In addition the bike was much harder to start with the “racking” CDI To me, a “better” coil should allow a wider spark gap. The two “racking” coils my friend got actually did not work with a gap as large as the stock one did. The reason we tried 2 by the way was that after the first ones we tried were junk, he returned them and the place “upgraded” him for the “better” parts (for more money) and as I said above, the upgrade parts were junk too. For my build, I’m keeping the stock CDI and coil. The coil I have will give me a nice blue spark at ..035 so I’m happy. Bigger carbs are a different story. Should help, but for some reason on my friends bike there was not real improvement. His bike, and the one I have, were both running very lean stock. On his bike, I tried running a 1/32” drill threw the stock jet ( approx an “85” jet), and it worked great. On M/CSU I recommend people stay away from pod filters. This is because a M/C engine has to run at many different rpm and the pod filters make them a bitch to try to tune. On these little bikes, the CVT is making the alway run at high RPMs. I kis with my son that I don’t need a throttle, a switch would do, idle and 7000 rpm. Well if you are running alway at 7000 rpm, it isn’t hard to tune, the only thing that effects the mixture is the main jet. Because of that he went to a pod filter, and when I started working on this guy, I went to a pod filter. The needle in my carb is not adjustable, so I made a spacer to go under the needle. By “easing the needle” I’m giving it more gas at lower RPMs when taking off. I was quite pleased with the result of the pod filter, raising the needle, and drilling out the jet. I got a a huge inprovment in my 0-25mph time. With just the carb mod I get to 25 mph 5 sec faster! And my top speed has gone from 31 MPH to 36 MPH. ( remember this is with an otherwise stock engine). That is a long way of saying, do your BBK and cam first with the stock carb ( re meted. Break in the motor and see what your preformance is like. Then try the bigger carb to make sure it’s helping you I very highly recommend you set up some tests and test your bike before yo do any mods. I happen to have a stright flat black top road that gives me almost a mile of “clear” road. ( just a few farms and no stop signs. So the tests I run are the zero to half mile drag race (time and speed). 0 to 25 mph time, and top speed at the end of one mile. I’m surprised how close my friends bike (toe toe) and mine ( ice bear) are. Since e but a 80 cc kit in his (stock cam) he eats mine for lunch. In the first 60 feet he will put a good 2 car lengths on me. But his top speed is only up 1 mph. After we do mine, and race a few dozen times, he will decide if he wants to do a cam. I may wait until we do his cam befor I try a bigger carb. In the end, I’m KNOW what ever combo I end up with will be faster then his! (My M/C is faster then his, my “other” car (‘69 Carmaro) is faster then his, and my bass boat is faster then his. I’m just a copetive kind of guy (G) Good luck on your build keep us up to date as you do your mods. |
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Post by kraine on Aug 1, 2018 12:53:24 GMT -5
I should also mention I am a mile above sea level, so stock setup and most stock carbs will be very rich, that is why i figured to get a keihin with a full jet set for carb tuning, to me the 40$ is worth not having to mess with easy outs, and I was looking at the "performance" cdi and coil mainly for the coil, but i was able to get an ngk coil that worked with the plug, so the cdi package is now out of my thoughts  , so the general consensus is i would probably be better off to derestrict the stock air box and skip the pod style air filter also? |
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Aug 1, 2018 17:50:43 GMT -5
There is more expertise on this forum than what I can usually offer, but my Ruck GY6 swap kit came with a pod filter and chinese keihin knock-off carburetor. It runs lean at low RPMs but once it gets going, pretty good. I've been through countless combinations of idle, main, and needle settings, to not much avail. Getting rid of the pod filter hopefully this weekend when the new one is delivered.
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Post by mrkswthwrth on Aug 1, 2018 19:04:01 GMT -5
Russ what are going to do for your filter? Just another pod or are you going for an airbox of some sort?
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Post by mrkswthwrth on Aug 1, 2018 19:05:54 GMT -5
And Kraine i would say skip the pod filter. In my experience they cause more trouble than they're worth when tuning and dailying, especially if you plan to ride in the rain. Just drill some extra holes in the stock box on pre filter side. Maybe remove the baffels inside.
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Aug 1, 2018 19:28:49 GMT -5
Russ what are going to do for your filter? Just another pod or are you going for an airbox of some sort? Uh well, I'm a little ashamed of what's on order, but I wanted to try the GOOFIT just to see what a POS it was, and perhaps be pleasantly surprised. In the meantime, I am considering a Polini air filter. Small trial-and-error-see-what-works sort of thing. :-) |
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Post by mrkswthwrth on Aug 1, 2018 22:26:31 GMT -5
Russ what are going to do for your filter? Just another pod or are you going for an airbox of some sort? Uh well, I'm a little ashamed of what's on order, but I wanted to try the GOOFIT just to see what a POS it was, and perhaps be pleasantly surprised. In the meantime, I am considering a Polini air filter. Small trial-and-error-see-what-works sort of thing. :-) Hey no shame! Whatever works best. I'm planning to build an airbox to hide inside my fairings since its wiiiide open under there. Using a gen-u-ine k&n 3" pod filter as the element and either a welded metal box that will incorporate a new battery tray for an atv batt, or a large tupperware container. Either way, it will be featured in my build thread. |
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Aug 2, 2018 2:46:57 GMT -5
If you choose to stick with the stock air box, I suggest you leave it stock. Don’t bother screwing with it. ESP in the thin air.
With as lean as these bikes come come from the factory, I would think they would be jetted just about right for you up in the high air. I would do a plug chop befor you do anything. Might as well get used to it, because if you plan to swap out jets, you should be doing plug chops on each change to see where your mixture is. Seat of the pants “that feels better” tuning is not a good idea when messing with jets. Truth is, a lean engine with run real good at WOT, for a while.
while it seems like a great idea to to everything at once, I would suggest you do one or the other. If your plug tells you that you have a good mixture (light brown), then do the BBK and put it back together with the stock carb to see how it runs and break it in a bit. Remember use lots of assembly lube! Just coating stuff with a thin layer of oil is not enough for your first start up. I also recommend you set your your idle speed high until you hav a few hours on it. I see these vids on you tube where guys do a BBK then start the bike up and just let it idle and pull my hair out! It’s no wonder so many people say their upgraded engines have such a short life! When these little engines are idleing, they are not pumping much oil. First start ups need LOTs of oil! I personally don’t let an engine drop below 2000 rpm in the first 5 hours. In fact on first startups, I set my idle up to 2500 rpms for the first few hours. I personally would change the oil after about 5 hours or so. I mean, really guys, these things only take a quart of oil, why not give it a quick oil change on a new engine?
im guessing your bike has an egr system. Remember all that is coming off with the new head. (I’m assuming you are getting a kit with a new head). I suggest you save all your old parts. The cams are so small on these that I keep my buddy’s stock cam in a coffee can ful of oil!
Oh more fun coming! I just got an email from my buddy that he ordered a stroker crank! I don’t think he realized that a crank is mot a 15 min job like a carb or cam! I’m guessing I may be buying some more tools! ( it’s always easier to pull the bottom end down with the proper pullers!)
so day ill I’ll have to turn off the auto spell corrector for doing these posts. I reread some of my posts and they are almost unreadable. I wish this board didn’t have white on black. My old eyes have a real hard time seeing what is being put on the screen as opposed to what I’m typing!
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Post by kraine on Aug 2, 2018 8:27:07 GMT -5
I am currently running rich, plug was black when i pulled it to install the ngk, if I pull any of the restrictions from the air box it becomes so lean I lose all power when the cvt tries to shift and the throttle on the stock carb isn't snapping the butterfly closed all the way, it hangs up like 1/8 open unless I push the throttle, and I've checked and adjusted the throttle cable on the carb and at the handle, it's tight and still let's the butterfly close all the way it just sticks and I want to install the 47mm bbk not for top end but to help with acceleration and power going up hills. Future plans include cvt and exhaust upgrades.
When it comes to adjusting the idle after I install the bbk you mean the screw above the throttle not the air fuel mix screw correct? Also is there a way to check my rpm without a tachometer, I want to install a digital dash at some point but am looking for the right one, mph, odometer, tach, and fuel gauge are my main concerns for the dash, but was going to let that wait until after I get the power I need to safely navigate the hills around here before I do what I consider cosmetic (dash, radio/alarm) or top end (cvt) mods.
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If you don't have much experience on scoot engines you should do one performance mod at a time to see how it affects the scoot.The plug and cdi/coil can be put on right away. The open filter may make it leaner so you have to increase the jetting. One performance mod at a time can save a lot of tail chasing later.
, so the general consensus is i would probably be better off to derestrict the stock air box and skip the pod style air filter also?
