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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 16, 2018 11:00:05 GMT -5
I recently found a belt on Amazon that looks really good. I believe it's made of carbon cords with ribbing(teeth) on the in side and outside circumference of the belt.& its only 3mm longer than my current belt. My belt that is currently on is at least 3 mm in every direction from reaching the outside of my variator so Im positive I could put on at least a slightly bigger if not a half inch bigger belt. the belt is around $37 with free shipping but would be worth it if I can get over 5,000 miles out of it as I just installed my 3rd belt 100-200 miles ago which is supposedly a $20 Amazon Kevlar by Qianjiang or a similarly spelled company. I rode about 5-7,000 miles when I bought my scoot and started out with a used unknown brand belt that lasted at least a couple thousand to 5,000 miles or slightly more, then a "reinforced Glixal racing" that lasted 1,000-2,000 miles before the teeth fell off and the outermost part didn't but it was shot. I will post an update and link on the supposed Kevlar after hopefully putting some serious miles on it before breaking. the address for the Gates G-force I found is www.amazon.com/Gates-70G2809-Drive-Belt/dp/B009HL75F6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 if you copy and paste it should work im sorry I couldn't get a proper link. The Gates website I saw says that G-force is a Pre mium part, whereas the regular powerlink belts are listed as standard next to them. I have also heard sellers claim of Gates Powerlink Kevlar but I'm not 100% sure that they are really Kevlar or Gates. im not even sure if the belt I mentioned above is really kevlar. My questions are does anyone know if G-force is longer lasting than powerlink? Does anyone have a link to any known to be real kevlar belts? what are your best suggestions for the longest lasting belts either just brands/model line or specifically sized 729-17.7-30 to a max of 743-20-30 or anything close or inbetween. I really appreciate your thoughts as I ride at least 1,000 miles per month and can't always afford to keep breaking down and changing belts for an hour or paying for sketchy looking Kevlar. Thanks in advance Scooter Heros! |
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Sept 17, 2018 4:53:48 GMT -5
Well, of course, I’m going to ask, why are you putting the wrong size belt on your scoot? Your CVT is designed to work correctly with one size belt. It’s not designed to be used with ant belt that is “close” to orginal. IMHO, your just asking for more trouble by going to a wrong size belt
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Sept 18, 2018 5:32:53 GMT -5
I don't have a lot of experience with different belts, but I did install a belt that's 7mm longer than the one that came in the gy6 150 (went with Gates 842-20-30), along with adding another gram on the sliders, in order to help get full range out to the edge of the drive face. It did help to get a couple more mph, and there is less vibration at speed.
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Post by fugaziiv on Sept 18, 2018 8:18:01 GMT -5
G-Force is a Gates sub brand specifically for ATV and Snowmobile applications.
G-Force isn't made in scooter sizes and for our applications wouldn't make much difference over a Powerlink as far as longevity is concerned anyway.
It's similar to the Boost brand by Gates, which is marketed specifically for scooter use in Europe. Overall belt demand is so low here in the states that Gates refuses to bring it over though. Every now and again some slip into our shipments, and you'll know if you have one because in addition to the Boost branding, the cords are blue and they are made in France.
Matt
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Post by dexameth on Sept 18, 2018 8:54:30 GMT -5
Bando. I've used cheap, Glixal, Gates and Bando and by far the Bando have lasted the longest. Some 139QMB motors have an issue with belt rub on the starter bendix, as does mine, and the Bando belts take it like a champ.
I've played around with different length belts, and right now I'm using a Bando 738x18x30 because a 729x18x30 would rest too low in the clutch at idle. It's a lot better now.
People worry that a longer belt may fly over a variator if it gets too long, but this isn't necessarily true. A variator can only close so far, so a WIDER belt could be pushed up and over. A longer belt will go as high as that vari will push it, with the issue being that the longer belt won't drop into the clutch as far and may rob top speed. I feel this is the case with my setup, but I don't really mind as it's set up for wheelies and not all out top speed. I still maintain flow with traffic easily and top out at 55ish.
Get yourself a Bando belt. Worth the money. If that breaks as quick as the others then you have a deeper issue that must be addressed.
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 18, 2018 9:46:01 GMT -5
Bando. I've used cheap, Glixal, Gates and Bando and by far the Bando have lasted the longest. Some 139QMB motors have an issue with belt rub on the starter bendix, as does mine, and the Bando belts take it like a champ. I've played around with different length belts, and right now I'm using a Bando 738x18x30 because a 729x18x30 would rest too low in the clutch at idle. It's a lot better now. People worry that a longer belt may fly over a variator if it gets too long, but this isn't necessarily true. A variator can only close so far, so a WIDER belt could be pushed up and over. A longer belt will go as high as that vari will push it, with the issue being that the longer belt won't drop into the clutch as far and may rob top speed. I feel this is the case with my setup, but I don't really mind as it's set up for wheelies and not all out top speed. I still maintain flow with traffic easily and top out at 55ish. Get yourself a Bando belt. Worth the money. If that breaks as quick as the others then you have a deeper issue that must be addressed. Thank you everyone for the responses. my Glixal "reinforced racing" lasted around 1k-2k miles tops, at $11 shipped to my door from E-bay I see it as a very cheap temp replacement to have on hand. I looked at my Qianjiang "kevlar" 729-17.7-30 yesterday while changing oils and it looks like it has little to no wear on drive surfaces after 100-200 miles and no glazing or cracking around the teeth. I will post an update if that one lasts or if it is even real Kevlar at $18 plus $5 shipping on e-bay or Amazon. I do have trouble with my belts hitting the Bendix as there is a gouge on all my belts on the outside from it, although I dont think it has caused any of my 2 belt failures it can't be good & is maybe slowing me down a little if anything??....Do you think that would be solved by getting a bushing for the Bendix that fits into the CVT cover? I believe there is supposed to be one to hold it steady and mine is missing. A question for Matt: do you sell engines at PFS.com? I am looking for a 100 110 or 125 gy6 engine. I have seen all versions exist, although are scarce and I can't find any new unless I was a bulk buyer or maybe I could find a used one. I am asking because I have seen all 3 come in versions with bottom mounts that look like they could be the same as 139qmb. also I am looking at BBK from your site and am very close to getting one...my main concern is will it be too much for my stock 139qmb starter? if that would be maybe questionable is it a lot easier on the starter to go with a larger volume head and a9 cam>? Thanks everyone for the responses. I was only asking about the other belts made for snowmobiles etc, including one that was less than a half inch bigger in circumference than my stock belt, because I am reading some people get over 10,000 miles on a single belt and I would much prefer that to 1,000 miles or a few thousand miles at best I have gotten out of the worn belt my used scoot came with as well as the glixal belt I replaced that with. I wasn;t like trying to put on a bigger belt for performance or whatever, I was just bringing it up because the bigger belt looks like it could last a long time |
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Post by fugaziiv on Sept 18, 2018 10:23:27 GMT -5
We do sell engines, but at the moment our GY6 engines are all top mount. The engine game is somewhat tricky. There is zero access to 100, 110 and 125 bottom mount engines in the US because none of those engines have EPA certification and therefore cannot be imported into the country. Indeed, overseas vendors will offer to sell you engines in bulk, but they'll be seized when they hit customs... and you get to choose if you want to destroy the engines yourself or pay customs an exorbitant amount of money to dispose of the engines. We haven't found a supplier of bottom mount GY6 engines that has EPA on their product yet that also meets the quality requirements that we have for our brand, so consequently we don't offer them yet. As far as your starter is concerned, dexameth runs our 52mm kit with the stroker crank, and on a 3.5AH battery he's had no issues with starting his bike. His starter has like 12k miles son it. The starter mechanism on the QMB is much different than that of the GY6 and doesn't suffer from the same starter issues a high compression GY6 engine suffers from. You should be fine. Also, I second the Bando recommendation. Bando has two sources of manufacture, Japan and China. Naturally the Japanese product tends to be of higher quality, and is also what is used in OE Honda applications. All of our Bando belts come from the Japanese factory and if you buy one and don't get 10k out of it, you most likely have other issues in your transmission that need to be addressed. Matt |
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 18, 2018 13:15:08 GMT -5
We do sell engines, but at the moment our GY6 engines are all top mount. The engine game is somewhat tricky. There is zero access to 100, 110 and 125 bottom mount engines in the US because none of those engines have EPA certification and therefore cannot be imported into the country. Indeed, overseas vendors will offer to sell you engines in bulk, but they'll be seized when they hit customs... and you get to choose if you want to destroy the engines yourself or pay customs an exorbitant amount of money to dispose of the engines. We haven't found a supplier of bottom mount GY6 engines that has EPA on their product yet that also meets the quality requirements that we have for our brand, so consequently we don't offer them yet. As far as your starter is concerned, dexameth runs our 52mm kit with the stroker crank, and on a 3.5AH battery he's had no issues with starting his bike. His starter has like 12k miles son it. The starter mechanism on the QMB is much different than that of the GY6 and doesn't suffer from the same starter issues a high compression GY6 engine suffers from. You should be fine. Also, I second the Bando recommendation. Bando has two sources of manufacture, Japan and China. Naturally the Japanese product tends to be of higher quality, and is also what is used in OE Honda applications. All of our Bando belts come from the Japanese factory and if you buy one and don't get 10k out of it, you most likely have other issues in your transmission that need to be addressed. Matt well that explains the engines unfortunately...when it's time for a new one I will just upgrade a new qmb or get a welding machine or a 150 to start with. I feel like my qmb with around 15k miles could last a few years still and a lot of miles if I change the oils belts transmission parts maybe final gears and any bearings. it seems like one could continuosly keep replacing a gy6 part ( from partsforscooters.com of course  here and there and keep it running forever until the whole case eventually breaks from stress and age or bad weather or chemicals spilled on it. Matt- do you mean 10k off a japanese regular Bando or do they make kevlar or any other special lines? does your website specifically sell only the Japanese factory Bandos or Chinese or both? And thanks again for your reply! |
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Post by fugaziiv on Sept 18, 2018 13:18:35 GMT -5
We do sell engines, but at the moment our GY6 engines are all top mount. The engine game is somewhat tricky. There is zero access to 100, 110 and 125 bottom mount engines in the US because none of those engines have EPA certification and therefore cannot be imported into the country. Indeed, overseas vendors will offer to sell you engines in bulk, but they'll be seized when they hit customs... and you get to choose if you want to destroy the engines yourself or pay customs an exorbitant amount of money to dispose of the engines. We haven't found a supplier of bottom mount GY6 engines that has EPA on their product yet that also meets the quality requirements that we have for our brand, so consequently we don't offer them yet. As far as your starter is concerned, dexameth runs our 52mm kit with the stroker crank, and on a 3.5AH battery he's had no issues with starting his bike. His starter has like 12k miles son it. The starter mechanism on the QMB is much different than that of the GY6 and doesn't suffer from the same starter issues a high compression GY6 engine suffers from. You should be fine. Also, I second the Bando recommendation. Bando has two sources of manufacture, Japan and China. Naturally the Japanese product tends to be of higher quality, and is also what is used in OE Honda applications. All of our Bando belts come from the Japanese factory and if you buy one and don't get 10k out of it, you most likely have other issues in your transmission that need to be addressed. Matt well that explains the engines unfortunately...when it's time for a new one I will just upgrade a new qmb or get a welding machine or a 150 to start with. I feel like my qmb with around 15k miles could last a few years still and a lot of miles if I change the oils belts transmission parts maybe final gears and any bearings. it seems like one could continuosly keep replacing a gy6 part ( from partsforscooters.com of course here and there and keep it running forever until the whole case eventually breaks from stress and age or bad weather or chemicals spilled on it. Matt- do you mean 10k off a japanese regular Bando or do they make kevlar or any other special lines? does your website specifically sell only the Japanese factory Bandos or Chinese or both? And thanks again for your reply! Just a regular poly belt Japanese Bando. Every Bando on our site is Japan made; we don't sell any of the Chinese made Bando belts. Matt |
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Sept 20, 2018 19:42:55 GMT -5
well that explains the engines unfortunately...when it's time for a new one I will just upgrade a new qmb or get a welding machine or a 150 to start with. I feel like my qmb with around 15k miles could last a few years still and a lot of miles if I change the oils belts transmission parts maybe final gears and any bearings. it seems like one could continuosly keep replacing a gy6 part ( from partsforscooters.com of course here and there and keep it running forever until the whole case eventually breaks from stress and age or bad weather or chemicals spilled on it. Matt- do you mean 10k off a japanese regular Bando or do they make kevlar or any other special lines? does your website specifically sell only the Japanese factory Bandos or Chinese or both? And thanks again for your reply! Just a regular poly belt Japanese Bando. Every Bando on our site is Japan made; we don't sell any of the Chinese made Bando belts. Matt That's good to know, all this chinese knockoff crap sorta pisses me off. I am still quite new to the scooter world. So is there at least discernible differences in the logo or packaging that a savy scooter guy could tell the difference? |
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Post by fugaziiv on Sept 21, 2018 8:10:14 GMT -5
Just a regular poly belt Japanese Bando. Every Bando on our site is Japan made; we don't sell any of the Chinese made Bando belts. Matt That's good to know, all this chinese knockoff crap sorta pisses me off. I am still quite new to the scooter world. So is there at least discernible differences in the logo or packaging that a savy scooter guy could tell the difference? Well, to be fair, the Chinese made Bandos aren't necessarily a knockoff. Bando does have a Chinese production facility. If you want to buy Japanese bando, just stick to our site. We're the only importer for Bando Japan in scooter sizes at the moment in the USA that ONLY imports Japanese product. Matt |
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Post by dexameth on Sept 21, 2018 8:19:18 GMT -5
Yeah, our Bando's are easy to tell where they come from   |
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Sept 21, 2018 8:39:50 GMT -5
It's difficult not to be cynical... how hard would they be hit if the chinese-manufactured belts were stamped with "made in japan" and they got caught? Sorry, not to drag this on
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Post by fugaziiv on Sept 21, 2018 9:21:23 GMT -5
It's difficult not to be cynical... how hard would they be hit if the chinese-manufactured belts were stamped with "made in japan" and they got caught? Sorry, not to drag this on Who would get hit, I'm confused by this question? No-one gets hit with penalties other than consumer unhappiness for the most part. Customs can weigh in, but unless it's something that they focus on due to a federal certification program (such as engines), they vary rarely do. It's easy for China to counterfeit just about anything TBH, and easy for online retailers (especially on Ebay, Amazon and Alibaba) to pass it off as authentic. You just have to find trustworthy sources and stick to those sources for authentic parts, that's really the only way around the counterfeit issue. Also, if the price of the part seems too good to be true, it probably is as the vendors of authentic product usually regulate pricing. Matt |
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here and there and keep it running forever until the whole case eventually breaks from stress and age or bad weather or chemicals spilled on it.