My Super 9 AC Build

[Thebatman]

My arreche sweats like that also...
I have even checked to make sure it wasnt fuel....lmao
Oh you will love the rs2....i do anyway...lol

[lbo]

Yeah I can't wait. The Next R has about 20K KM on it, I bought it used and put 15K KM on it myself so I wonder how much carbon build up I have inside it. I think it's really restricting top end and understand it's not really built for a 70cc kit. The scooter pulls hard all the way to 45 indicated and then the acceleration slows. I installed 7gm Dr. Pulley sliders (I weigh 210#) and they are very smooth, I think I guessed the correct weight. I was using 6.5g rollers but I chew through them quick with flat spots. Looking forward not having flat spots anymore too.

[Thebatman]

yOU CAN PUT A FEW OUNCES OF SEA FOAM IN YOUR TANK, IT'LL CLEAN ALL THAT CARBON OUT OF EVERYTHING. tHAT IS SOME GREATSTUFF, STARTS in 1 tank.. i love it. Yeah, you could also re wrap your silencer to get rid of some build up in the matting...

[lbo]

Question on my build. First off I had the C-Clip at the highest point on needle jet, I dropped it to the middle notch. It "gurgles" now at 1/8 to half throttle and skips a little if I get on it. No big deal but my plug now has a nice caramel color when doing a low 1/8 throttle plug chop. I ordered the S1 needle for it today, heard people with this set up have had good luck with that needle instead. Interesting to note the speed went from about 25MPH to 20MPH at that throttle position.



My question is about my idle. It is still rediculously high and I can't bring it down. My hypothisis is that the stock elbow is just too long and needs to be replaced. I have 0 play in the twist grip, none, and thinking the cable is too short. I adjusted the nut on top of the slide all the way and still no play. Looking inside the carb it appears that the sleeve is seated all the way closed but maybe not? People have said if I use the stock elbow that I will have to cut the throttle cable as it would be too long.


Any recommendations on how to get this idle down? Do you think the lack of play in the throttle grip has something to do with it?

Lastly when changing the needle jet I noticed what looked like water inside that part of the carb. Do you think that condensation is collecting inside the carb and will it affect the operation long term? Maybe when humidity falls below 95% like it has been it won't be so much of an issue.

[90GTVert]

Sounds like you're too rich on the needle now.

Take the airbox off and watch the slide while you adjust the idle screw. If it won't go any lower or takes some turns before it starts moving up you should look into the cable issues rather than a tuning issue first.

I think the moisture issues will clear up when the humidity does.

[lbo]

Thanks for that tip. I did take a look at how the idle screw adjusted the slide, I think I found the problem. The cable is just too short by this ----><----- much. From all the way in it would go down as I turned it out until about 2 1/2 turns and wouldn't close anymore. Looking closely at the slide I can see it's not seated all the way down in the carb, has a little more room to go down.

I will need to reconfigure that cable and the top of the carb somehow. How does one adjust the A/F screw when you can't control the idle?

I did some plug chops, it's obviously rich at 1/8 throttle. So I would lean out the screw but do I just do another chop to see if it's where it should be? With the slide needle lowered (top clip) it's too lean.



WOT looks good to me, some uneven color though. Would like a second (or 3rd, 4th) opinion.



On a side note, feeling comfortable with the break in I went ahead and swapped the CDI with a no rev limited one after looking at the plug. I really didn't think it had a rev limiter, I was wrong. I could hear it in action after I did this 70cc upgrade so I plugged it in to see what would happen. It was $40 and designed for a 150 4T scooter, and it works great. So much so I hit 50MPH before I ran out of room leaving my neighborhood!!!!! The speedo was pegged in no time. Wow, it wanted to climb some more but I ran out of asphalt and I am still running this NEXT R pipe, the RS II will be that much quicker.

Here is the GPS google map of that run just a short while ago. Click the END part of the run to pop up the details.
maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=201944042264907696541.0004ac88aa3968a50aa11

I really love this scooter now!! haha

[90GTVert]

I wouldn't worry about 1/8 throttle too much right now. Just work on the main jet. Once you are sure you've got it, then work on the rest. From what I can tell it looks OK if you're just making quick passes. Have you tried anything other than the 90 main? Plug chops are good, but the easiest tuning is done with a selection of jets. Look for more power and pay attention to everything you feel.

Sept 9, 2011 16:42:41 GMT -5 lbo said:

How does one adjust the A/F screw when you can't control the idle?

IMO you don't. It should be setup properly mechanically before worrying about anything else.




On an unrelated note. Looking at your map, you live off of Lighthouse Rd. I came in that way off of 54 on my trips to OC. That's the craziest area of the whole ride. For some reason cars tried to run me over (tailgated me) every time I was on that stretch of road. I could do 55 in the 40 (IIRC) and still people wanted to make a pancake out of me. So many bikes I didn't wanna stay on the shoulder there. I guess it's something you get used to, but I'm just a little old country boy.

[lbo]

Haha yeah, right off route 54. Summer traffic getting to the beach gets so backed up it's one of several reasons I like riding a 50cc scooter.............. get to pass on the right! Just made a speed run and hit 53.7 MPH on that bridge going over the marsh area. There was a weird sound coming from the exhaust at that speed so I backed off. It sounded almost like the sound of a sheet of paper being ripped, with the bridge wall there the exhaust note was amplified. Instead of the rapid put put put sound it was just an even tone at WOT for a second. Not sure what that was, maybe the reeds couldn't keep up with the RPM's? Maybe the pipe couldn't handle it?



My main jets just arrived today, have an 80, 85, 90 and 100. I already have a 90 in the scooter (shipped with a 60 installed) so I am a little bummed no 95. It was a "tuning kit" and they indicate the carb ships with a 95. Huh, pretty sure it was a 90 I put in but maybe I am running a 95 now. Anyway it also included a 15 and a 25 pilot jet.


So once I get the main dialed in then work on the PJ and A/F screw? How would I know if I need a smaller PJ instead of tuning the A/F screw? Without being able to get it to idle correctly I have no clue how to know where the A/F should be adjusted.

Also, the humidity is still > 95%. How does humidity affect tuning? When the air dries out will I be more rich or lean?

Thinking of that cable, I will try to remove that adjustment nut on top of the carb first leaving the stock elbow on. Good idea? If not then I will need to remove the stock elbow (which is crimped on the cable) and use the elbow and set up that came with the carb. The folks at Moped Hospital said to leave the stock elbow on though. I am not happy with the way it fits, it's loose and worried the cable might start to get freyed over time there where the elbow ends and the top of the adjustment nut.

The area in red isn't secure. So I either remove the nut which will give me the length I need or carefully cut the elbow that is crimped and use the elbow with the kit.



Suggestions? Sorry for the long post and all the questions, it's a learning curve for me and tuning this scooter.

[90GTVert]

Sept 9, 2011 19:49:46 GMT -5 lbo said:

There was a weird sound coming from the exhaust at that speed so I backed off. It sounded almost like the sound of a sheet of paper being ripped, with the bridge wall there the exhaust note was amplified. Instead of the rapid put put put sound it was just an even tone at WOT for a second.

Not sure about the paper ripping sound. Maybe I hear things different or explain them different, but I feel like my engines are always a solid tone at WOT. If it's a random put put sound, that seems like a sputter to me, like it's too rich. I dunno, I feel like I'm in that Aamco commercial right now. :laugh:

Sept 9, 2011 19:49:46 GMT -5 lbo said:

My main jets just arrived today, have an 80, 85, 90 and 100. I already have a 90 in the scooter (shipped with a 60 installed) so I am a little bummed no 95. It was a "tuning kit" and they indicate the carb ships with a 95. Huh, pretty sure it was a 90 I put in but maybe I am running a 95 now.

I'd run it on a test strip and pay close attention. Then go back and change jets quickly. Switch to the next step up from whatever is in there and try to do the exact same run. If there's no big difference, switch to the next step down from what was in there and do the same test run. That should give you a pretty good idea of which way you need to go on the main or if you've got the right one.

Sept 9, 2011 19:49:46 GMT -5 lbo said:

So once I get the main dialed in then work on the PJ and A/F screw? How would I know if I need a smaller PJ instead of tuning the A/F screw? Without being able to get it to idle correctly I have no clue how to know where the A/F should be adjusted.

Some folks have a little different methods, but here's my basic method (after all is mechanically sound as mentioned earlier). Get it set up to idle enough that it doesn't die however I need to (idle speed, mix adjust). Select the right main jet. Adjust idle speed and mixture screw, pilot if necessary. Then select the right needle position. Re-adjust idle mix and speed.

If you can't get the idle correct with the idle mixture (always too rich or lean or doesn't respond to any setting) then you need a different pilot. If it's adjusted all the way rich for best results, try the next largest. All the way lean for best results, try the next smallest.

Sept 9, 2011 19:49:46 GMT -5 lbo said:

Also, the humidity is still > 95%. How does humidity affect tuning? When the air dries out will I be more rich or lean?

High humidity will make the jetting seem richer, but I believe it to be a very small effect on the jetting. Likely nothing to worry about.

[lbo]

Cool thanks for you help.

Maybe I didn't explain the sound correctly. The noise reverberates from the bridge, I can always detect a "pulse" if you will at all RPM's. (Not the sputtering like I have now at low rpm) All of a sudden there was no pulse in the exhaust........ it was one constant sound for a second. I don't know, kinda like the sound paper makes when it's ripped, or when cutting wrapping paper. Odd. It went away as soon as I let off the throttle and never came back. The RPM's were higher then ever with the no rev limiter CDI, wondering if something like the reed valves or the pipe weren't keeping up. Wish I had a tach, my tiny tach died years ago. Maybe a good idea to get another.

I think I cured the short cable/high idle issue. There was another adjustment nut near the grip. Completely over looked another adjustment for the cable, pretty certain that slide valve will now close all the way now that I have a little play or slack in the grip. I will play with those settings tommorow to make sure I can get it to idle properly. From there I can now finally adjust the low end.

I had the slide needle in the carb at a lower setting (top notch) but seemed too lean. Only when I moved it up to the middle notch did I get the gurgling sound and rich setting on the low end. I have a S1 Needle on order, it has a fatter taper and should remedy this issue.

Good to know about the humidity too, thanks again.

[lbo]

I mentioned earlier how my carb sweats, I guess it's typical with an Arreche???

In and out of the carb all day I am noticing water collecting on the inside. The clip for the needle appears to be getting discolored, like rust. The alum plate the clip rests on is showing signs of corrosion.

I take the choke off and notice this;


Can't be good, is there anything I can do to prevent this water from collecting? Odd problem and not sure what (if any) long term affects this might cause.

[lbo]

If anyone can comment on the water it's collecting inside I would appreciate. Maybe it's just one of those things you can't do anything about? I can't be the only one with a sweaty carb though can I?

Maybe once the humidity breaks it will be more of a non-issue.

[lbo]

Well I am done with the upgrade and happy with the results.

I played with the jets more today. The 15PJ was too small, the 25 was too big, and the stock 20 was just right. It's too much though with the 01 slide needle in the center notch, a "tad" lean on the top notch but performance is close to perfect. Once in a while from idle when I get on it nothing is there for a split second. The 100MJ, the 90 I had drilled one step bigger were too much (had 2 90MJ's, no 95). The 85 was just a tad too little and comfortable with the performance and plug chops. The stock 90 seems to be about right.

I am still waiting on a S1 slide needle and the RS II exhaust, minor at this point.

The problem with the stock elbow has been corrected, I found another adjustment in the cable so I slacked that out some. The way in which the elbow connects to the carb I solved by attaching a tight rubber hose that keeps them together more snug. Got the idle dialed in now, the A/F screw dialed in and both jets seem to be great. It pulls hard from 0 all the way to 40ish (45 indicated) and I topped it out at 54.25MPH a little while ago which is between the P&H on the speedo) Not bad for my 215# of mass. It still gives me a weird noise at WOT and top speed, again sounds like paper tearing but only does it for a brief second at a time and only at WOT when I am close to top end speed. I have a feeling it could be the reeds or maybe (doubtful) Next R pipe. It's odd for certain.

I am now running the Mallosi 73cc and Arreche 19mm carb. Next R pipe. I also have a no rev limited CDI. For the transmission have an upgraded variator (forget what it is, got it a long time ago) with 7gm Dr Pulley sliders. 1500 clutch springs (I think, long time ago..... they are blue) and a 1500 torque spring (yellow). A new stock belt, always had good luck with the Bando belt over any kevlar.

For cosmetics I made these mods a long long time ago when I first got it thanks to the Yahoo Super 9 group: replaced tail lens with an '04, modded the turn signal lights and put amber bulbs in them and removed rear mud flap. I also trimmed the lower mud flap over the rear tire so it appears symetrical. In the front I removed the turn signals up on the handle bars and put them next to the headlight, again with amber lights. I installed a small windsheild that has been painted black.

This is her, again just waiting on the RS II pipe and a slide needle. Thanks everyone for the help and to Brent for an AWESOME site that you put a ton of work into.

[90GTVert]

Everything looks good and those views are making me jealous. lol

I don't think there's much you can do about moisture when the humidity is like this. I ended up cutting grass while it was still wet yesterday because the stuff just won't dry out with this weather. I've had paint for a park bench drying for over a day and it's still sticky. Sucks. Cross your fingers for the humidity to go back to normal is all I know that you can do.

[lbo]

Thanks man, valuable website you have built........... wealth of information and experienced tuners floating around and posting. While reviewing many of the the "true builds" in this section I am humbled and feel like an idiot posting a simple BBK upgrade.

Anytime you want to bring one of your scoots to OC just drop a line, I have a couch for ya and we could cruise Coastal HWY. Again many thanks, awesome site.