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Post by hippo008 on Jun 27, 2021 23:13:00 GMT -5
The real challenge for me with the smart carb is cost. The thing is $600, I can basically get a cylinder, pipe and carb for that kind of cash. If it were $350 I would say eh, maybe it's worth a go and if it works great, if not I'll flip it on ebay and move on. Heck the carb alone is worth more than what I got my whole Roughhouse for used!
I saw your video series Brent. Your struggle to get it in tune was enough for me to completely disregard the Lecton as an option. The real goal for me isn't an easy initial tune it's keeping it in tune + the fuel efficiency gains. I live in an area with a drastic climate and keeping a carb in high tune all year round is a real challenge for me. I was hoping for a "set and forget" kind of solution to make things easier for me.
I think if I had a more extreme setup the SmartCarb could be worth it, especially a thirsty stroker like the Honda guys love. I'll probably end up with a Polini 26 or something similar. It's a known reliable solution, however finicky it may be to tune.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2021 23:25:28 GMT -5
The real goal for me isn't an easy initial tune it's keeping it in tune + the fuel efficiency gains. I live in an area with a drastic climate and keeping a carb in high tune all year round is a real challenge for me. I was hoping for a "set and forget" kind of solution to make things easier for me.. IMO, this is what these carbs should be all about. If you change elevation a lot on rides, and they work as advertised, they could be worth it. It could also be worth it if they work well across a wide array of weather changes. I have noticed in Lectron's own info that they still say changes may be needed for large elevation changes or temp swings. I forget the numbers, though IIRC there were temp ranges and elevation ranges mentioned. That tells me that they aren't quite as awesome as some would hope. That said, if it's only a little tweak of the metering rod height or turn of the power jet setting; those are both simple to do. Those things are indeed easier than changing a jet. The metering rod's threaded adjustments do eliminate the worry of something like dropping a needle clip when you're on the side of the road. I've read mixed reviews on power and fuel economy. I believe that Lectron doesn't actually state that their carbs improve fuel economy, but rather says that some of their customers say they do. In the end, you can still tune the carb. It will be up to you to improve fuel economy, at least to some degree. If you just want to ride or race without huge swings or don't mind a little adjustment or a jet swap here and there, then so far I'm not seeing the need to spend 2-5x on the carb and then spend way more on any tuning parts compared to more typical PWK. Here's an example that I realized when I was looking around on ScooterTuning the other day. Polini sells a set of 10 needles for the PWK for ~$30 regular price. 1 metering rod from Lectron is $30. So far, I have spent $165 in orders at Lectron, and it would be well more if they hadn't helped me out with a few free rods and the 2nd power jet kit for free. That means I have over $600 into the Lectron. Even if you bought a brand new genuine Keihin for $300... how many tuning parts could you get for another $300? All of them? |
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Post by jstich on Jun 27, 2021 23:30:52 GMT -5
Brent did you buy one or did they furnish one for you to review? Also what size engine were you using it on?
30 bux for a chunk of steel with some threads on it.It may be a specialized thing but it's priced like it takes some precision Japanese tooling to make.I wonder if they'll try to say that the engine you're using is too small or something.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2021 23:43:09 GMT -5
Brent did you buy one or did they furnish one for you to review? Also what size engine were you using it on? 30 bux for a chunk of steel with some threads on it.It may be a specialized thing but it's priced like it takes some precision Japanese tooling to make.I wonder if they'll try to say that the engine you're using is too small or something. I paid for the carb. I got a small discount because of my deal with ScooterTuning. I'm not allowed to tell you specifics, but I didn't pay much less for the Lectron than list price. All of the details are in my vids and T2's thread, but yes they have said that the carb may be too big for my TPR 86cc... which should be around 20HP I guess. Velocity from low case volume was mentioned, but if I'm suffering then you all will. I am using a large adapter for KX85 reeds that adds volume and I cut trenches into my cases. |
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Post by jstich on Jun 28, 2021 0:03:08 GMT -5
Well shoot.Mebbe it'd work better with other (very high performance) applications. I'll hafta yahoo! the t2 vids.I hate over the top hype.Just be honest ffs.I think this is one of the reasons I like PFS.No nonsense just reality based info.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 28, 2021 0:08:36 GMT -5
I'll hafta yahoo! the t2 vids. I'll save you the trouble. Here's part 1. The others should come up. youtu.be/cMXBSBTMyEs |
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Post by jstich on Jun 28, 2021 0:51:32 GMT -5
Suite! Thanx buddy!  |
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Post by hippo008 on Jun 28, 2021 12:42:05 GMT -5
I wonder if there is a big difference in quality between a Polini PWK and a Keihin PWK? I'll have to look into it. The quality of my Polini seems pretty high.
I'm going to pass on the SmartCarb. It's just too expensive to justify the hypothetical results.
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Post by Kenho21 on Jun 28, 2021 20:58:57 GMT -5
I wonder if there is a big difference in quality between a Polini PWK and a Keihin PWK? I'll have to look into it. The quality of my Polini seems pretty high. I'm going to pass on the SmartCarb. It's just too expensive to justify the hypothetical results. I’m not a huge Polini fan, but I do love their carbs. I’ve only ever played with CP’s, but of the 10 or so I’ve messed with, all great quality and easy to tune, IMO. As a matter of fact I was over a guy’s house helping him with his scoot yesterday and he supposedly had a broken Polini CP carb that leaked gas for no apparent reason. Scootertuning even sent him a free replacement. I took it apart, put it back together. Everything looked great. Fired right up and worked perfectly. He got a free carb out of the deal. Turns out the carb was fine and he’s a mild idiot who can’t install a carb. The end. |
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Post by chadbullet on Jun 30, 2021 12:13:34 GMT -5
member drc174 is a smartcarb dealer. He seems to be having lots of success with the SC on the Vespas he has put them on. He had the 26mm in hand when I stopped by the shop, but I'm not sure if he has installed it on any lower displacement applications yet. |
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Post by drc174 on Jul 26, 2021 22:05:49 GMT -5
Hey!
Sorry I habe been a little absent. There are actually a bunch if AF16 motors out there that run 36mm SC2s with lots of success.
Reading through the post:
I have had a ton of success with the SC2 on Vespa applications. I have built a 26hp 193cc small block that uses a 36mm that was absolutely PERFECT out of the box. Best run on the dyno. The key is preliminary information.
Built several 208cc stock 200s with a SC2 and they run phenomenally well, crisp and grunty at low rpm.
Built all new Malossi 221s that are mondblowingly quick... it sucks because I didn't do any porting hah. A similar engine with SC2 just finished the Scooter Cannonball.
That is my input, I am a crappy sales man but a passionate scooter guy so if you have questions, let me know! I qm scarcly here anymore, hit me up on Ig @thatscootershop
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Post by 808ministroke on Mar 17, 2024 20:27:00 GMT -5
I wonder if there is a big difference in quality between a Polini PWK and a Keihin PWK? I'll have to look into it. The quality of my Polini seems pretty high. I'm going to pass on the SmartCarb. It's just too expensive to justify the hypothetical results. As somebody who has run both a polini PWKA genuine kehin and a knock off like oko I would have to say that you might not notice much of a difference on mild builds but for me II noticed that there are indeed very big differences in all 3 but it mainly relates to the quality of the part itself and all the inner workings as well as how long will it last. First one I've ever used of course was a Chinese copy andDo you know no better you will probably really like it, Once you get more versed and tuning like I did I upgraded to a polini And I noticed a nice step up in the quality of the castings And everything else other than the slide as the polini slide had a Chrome coding that peeled pretty quickly. No the genuine PWKCost me around 3 times the price of the plenty which was about twice the price of a knock off. At first I had issues had to get the float level right but once that was sorted there is literally not a comparison that can be made in terms of the quality the more you spend the better it will be, I've had so many clothes most of them are broken cause every little part of them tends to break pretty quickly they are harder to tune not as accurate, For a long time the polini worked absolutely great for me But when I try it on my 86Z CMH R hyper race It would starve a fuel after a few moments of wide open throttle. I think this may have been due to the fuel passage way into the bowl and even the holes cut right where the needle's valve seats. I amazed at the quality if you take care of it should last you a good 20 years maybe a rebuild kit will take you another 20. And this is heavy everyday riding I'm talking about also also the genuine slides never have any flaking off of any plating on the slides or anywhere else for that matter every intercomponent is such such well made It is worth the extra money because you can pretty much guarantee that none of the things like the needle seat or the floats will ever get damaged and need to be replaced unless you really just do something crazy stupid I think the answer is simple if you have a decent amount of money into your bspend the extra money on the real carbThe fact is you only need one carb for every bike even if you upgrade it usually and you can use it on another bike if you wanted to later, If your budget and build was on the mild side like for instance cast iron board or sport single exhaust port aluminum cylinder with a mild chamber pipe then you probably wanna go with the polini which is about half the price or actually less than that if you spent $50 on your Chinese big Bore kit then go head and buy the 20 Dol our knock off on Ali express because it should work good enough and it should last at least as long as you're cylinder last, So you get what you pay for and the carb is a very important investment seeing as it's not the priceiest part but it does such an important job I hope whoever Has any questions on what's 12 buy that they read this and are clear on what best suits them Aloha. |
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