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Post by scooter7878 on Jul 3, 2021 16:01:53 GMT -5
Lol by fucked I meant a bad variater
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 4, 2021 9:33:52 GMT -5
CW== clock wise CCW== Counter clock wise
There is a pair of ramps inside the clutch which guide pins that ride on the ramp surface. If things are worn, rough and/or dry, the sides will not move as smartly as they should. You can stand on the clutch while loosening(hit the wrench with a hammer) the big nut. I use a large adjustable wrench. The variator slides can wear. The variator RAMPS can wear. The variator guides(three) can wear as can the plastic anti-friction plastic guides. The surface the belt rides upon can get rough or grooved, and the variator will not likely work as well. A belt can wear and become thinner in its cross-section. That can limit the diameter the belt can be pushed to by the variator, and limit the gear ratio achieved, and thus top speed. A too-short belt can also limit travel similarly. The whole thing is kind of a 'dance', to get all things working in accord. tom
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vacationer
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Post by vacationer on Jul 21, 2021 16:51:20 GMT -5
Okay here we go. Three of the rollers have very obvious flat spots. Do those look flat enough to cause my my top speed to decrease by half? Also, if anyone can recommend a good way of finding out the weight of these guys so I can replace them, that'd be great. The manual for this scoot is a joke and I haven't found anything either on this site or google about tao tao's less than a few years old. They may very well be the same weight as they've been in past years, but I have no way of knowing. I know sometimes folks on here will link to a site with exact parts numbers and parts diagrams for different scooters, but I don't remember what the name of the site is.
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Post by vacationer on Jul 21, 2021 17:03:57 GMT -5
Hm, this is interesting. Looks like the belt rubbed off. You can sort of tell in the picture, but that ring is pretty thick, in terms of how high it is off the the surface of the gear - as in, I can feel it with my fingers. It's very hard too; little flecks can be scratched off with some force. Any hints as to how to remove it?
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Post by scooter7878 on Jul 21, 2021 17:34:03 GMT -5
Ur def needing a belt and at least rollers I use bando kevlar it's the best belt I've found I drive like a anmial and it holds up to me lol and if I was u I'd order either a whole variator set up like a naraku sport or ssp-g it will come with rollers around the right size or u can order a kit of rollers for like 30 bucks and way u can play with weights to get some better performance. Whatever u do don't buy cheap rollers they go bad in a matter of weeks name brand only and u can get a small digital scale usually for around 15 bucks to weigh
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Post by scooter7878 on Jul 21, 2021 17:36:05 GMT -5
Bad rollers burn belts up I had that a lot until I sprung for a name brand variator and rollers there worth every penny they ride so much better and the weights last a long time
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vacationer
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Post by vacationer on Jul 21, 2021 18:18:57 GMT -5
Does roller weight only need to match the variator being used? Or are there other factors? Meaning, if I buy a variator that fits my bike, the rollers that come with it will work, regardless of weight?
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Post by scooter7878 on Jul 21, 2021 18:39:21 GMT -5
No roller weight depends on a lot of factors like rider weight,upgrades done to ur scooter,what kind of terrain u ride meaning a lot of hills or all flat ground not hilly ,what ur looking for better acceleration or slightly higher top speed. In general lighter weights give u more acceleration and heavier will give slower take off but higher top speed. There's a lot to the cvt it needs to be balanced to the rest of the cvt also depending on what contra spring u have. The weight basically decides when the belt shifts. If ur motor makes the most power at 7000 rpm u want to find a contra spring and weight that when u give full throttle it reces up to 7000 and stays there throughout the throttle range or for most of it anyways. Different upgrades will move ur power band usually higher. For instance a stock 50cc probably makes the most power at maby 6000 or 6500 so u would want a weight that keeps ur reces there wot. If u add a exhaust and air filter ur power band will move up some say maby 7500 so u would want a weight that keeps ur revs wot at 7500. If u ride a lot steep hills go a little on the lighter side it will climb hills better if u don't run many hills but want to try get a tad more top speed go a little heavier with weights but always mace sure ur revs stay around the rpm that ur motor feels the most powerful
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Post by steve1297 on Jul 21, 2021 23:26:55 GMT -5
If you are between 170-200lbs, 6g weights. 6.5g are actually about perfect, if you can find them.
That ring on your drive face will stop the belt from traveling. Clean that off with brake cleaner and scotch bright. And you'll need a new belt
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 22, 2021 12:11:48 GMT -5
90gtvert has multiple videos about tuning roller variator weights. He even used foil(?) stuck into the hollow to modify the weight when tuning. Find his videos and note how he proceded to tune. It is always a trade-off between highest speed and quickest acceleration. Climbing also is affected, being slower if you tuned for highest speed. Weights are sold my many vendors on line and in local stores. You can use a postal scale to weigh the current set you have that are worn, and come pretty close to duplicating them taking the average of all weights, and choosing a weight that is just a smidge heavier. Weights that have wear will not generally slide in/out of position as well as unworn weights, and they have a tendency to stick or jam, and not move the variator side plates as you would like. Yours may have stuck in a particular position (weights halfway down or ??) and caused the belt to get jammed there, unable to move up or down the valley. As noted, I would polish the plate, using the mentioned plastic steel wool, or a soft wire (brass?) buffing wheel in a hand drill or a bench grinder. You do not need to remove metal, just the rubbery deposit. Inspect the slots in the variator where the weights ride back and forth, looking for non-smooth surfaces. If damaged, the slider weights will tend to stick, even new ones. Also take a look at the plastic 'spacers' that ride up and down the three 'legs'. The spacers should not be too loose as that would allow the bits to move out of place, and the legs should be relatively clean. tom
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Post by vacationer on Jul 22, 2021 18:31:24 GMT -5
Okay well last night, before I saw your responses, I decided to use some light sandpaper to remove the ring. That seemed to work pretty well and didn't scratch up the metal really. It felt smooth to the touch once I was done. I also decided to sand down the rollers since my only other option was going to be new ones anyways.
Put everything back in today and got no change in performance whatsoever. That tells me that: a) the ring possibly was not affecting the behavior of my variator, which I would find surprising b) if it was, then sanding down the rollers may have reduced their weights and cancelled out the benefit I got from removing the ring - but I can't know if their weights really changed at all c) something else is wrong with the variator d) something is wrong with my rear pulley e) is it possible for a bad belt to be the sole source of the problem?
I doubt that it's the carb because I've tried the largest and smallest jets I have and neither made any difference in top speed. So I guess I'll have to start by replacing my variator, and if this doesn't work, see if I can afford a new rear pulley. It'll be more feasible for me to just get new rollers for the time being since I'm short on funds for the next couple weeks. Is it worth buying some new weights to see if that works? From what I can find, stock are probably 5g or 5.5g.
@grumpyunk are you referring to the tabs that mate the front and back pieces of the sliding part of the pulley? and the little plastics bits that click on to the back piece? (hope that makes sense, I don't know the vocab)
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Post by steve1297 on Jul 23, 2021 7:01:57 GMT -5
That ring is probably there because that's the spot your belt stays in, and won't travel any higher. I would say it's a CVT problem. Probably the variator. I would throw a performance variator on, and a new belt. You can take your clutch off and make sure the pulley opens. I'd say it definitely looks like a CVT problem
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 23, 2021 8:33:16 GMT -5
If the belt does not ride out to the outer limit of the variator, you will have limited top speed. It can be caused if the belt is worn, and the width reduced. Measure across the belt to see that it is still its proper dimension. If too narrow, the belt won't ride as high because the movement of the variator movable parts is limited. Do not get a too-short belt as that will also limit movement of the parts. You can get a complete clutch assembly from online sources for not a lot of money. Be aware that the quality may be variable. tom
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Post by vacationer on Jul 23, 2021 19:06:18 GMT -5
steve1297 Great point. We were thinking in the wrong direction. @grumpyunk I'm sure that's it. Looks like it's measuring about 1.5mm below its correct width. I'll let y'all know what happens when the new belt comes. I'll be ecstatic if that does the trick, but I'll likely still get a new variator afterwards.
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Post by vacationer on Jul 25, 2021 16:17:33 GMT -5
Alright, new belt was definitely wider than the old by a bit, not a ton. No improvement to speed though.
Is there a good way to determine whether my clutch is opening up fully? Also, the size of pilot jet I'm using shouldn't make a difference to top speed, correct?
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