Honda Metropolitan swaps - need ideas!

[furiousbob]

So I was bored one day and started thinking about fun swaps.  I really like the Metropolitan but it definitely needs more power.  My first thought was a CN250 or CH250 swap.  I hear parts are readily available for them.  But I also hate tinkering with carburetors.  Finding a fuel injected, 250cc, water or air cooled motor might get a bit pricey.

If water cooled, I'll need to figure out placement for a radiator.  Shouldn't be too big of a deal.

I would need a donor scooter so I can take the entire harness with it.  Preferably a horizontal motor for ease of transplant.  Honda Reflex?  Still carb'ed, though.

Any ideas?

[90GTVert]

Yamaha SMAX 155cc makes 2HP less than the old CN250. They aren't huge scoots so it's probably a little easier to fit. All the modern stuff... EFI, LC, 4V. They are regularly reviewed as 70MPH capable. Depends just how much power you are after. Yamaha XMAX 300 is just shy of 28HP, but as you move to big scoots I'd imagine it's gonna get harder and harder to swap it and make it look anywhere near normal. Not the sort of thing you'd ride around and pretend it's still a 50... Not that we'd ever do that anyway.

Could just be a badass and do an LC 2T swap. RC1 94cc is about 25-30HP. Not EFI... but those 4T scoots aren't gonna sing at 14,000RPM and puff out cool smoke either. 😁

[wiscootsin]

salvage Vespas are quite cheap, at least near me(if the metal frame is bent/damaged its pretty unusable but the engines are high quality). It would be unlikely to have the coded key to work with the computer, and the EFI models are even trickier. But an older carbed liquid cooled 200cc piaggio engine can run on a chinese ECU. When i say cheap i mean under $300 for a trashed bike. Both engines on ones i got ran fine once i bought a computer module.

Chinese 250cc liquid cooled engine clones are easy to find cheap too, but like said above it would likely look more bizarre because of those setups.

[Kaos]

Feb 17, 2023 13:40:17 GMT -5 wiscootsin said:

salvage Vespas are quite cheap, at least near me(if the metal frame is bent/damaged its pretty unusable but the engines are high quality). It would be unlikely to have the coded key to work with the computer, and the EFI models are even trickier. But an older carbed liquid cooled 200cc piaggio engine can run on a chinese ECU. When i say cheap i mean under $300 for a trashed bike. Both engines on ones i got ran fine once i bought a computer module.

Chinese 250cc liquid cooled engine clones are easy to find cheap too, but like said above it would likely look more bizarre because of those setups.

I bought a junked Vespa GTS 300 engine for $250 and they can be even cheaper if you find a non-Vespa branded motor from something like the Piaggio Beverly, Aprilia Sportcity, or Piaggio MP3. All the same engine. I did run into problems with not having the coded key and its practically impossible to get the ECU working without that. Piaggio wanted $700+ and proof of ownership (The bike's title) to get a working ECU, so switched to Megasquirt for the ECU.

You can ALSO use the stator, carb, intake, and a couple other bits from the 200 on ANY of the Quasar engines(200-300cc) to make it carbureted with a little bit of work if you don't want to mess with fancy electronics.

[sinfull]

150cc gy6 swap is the bread and butter, easy to order a mount kit and all the fancy parts. Order a long case so you can do the fat tire 12.

Alot of people will still talk trash about the gy6 and the electric problems and say this sucks and that sucks, but they have also never split a gy6. Bearings are good for what the engine is.

Order from Amazon and delivered to the door, goes catastrophic failure in like 5 yrs order another and 2 bolts to put in.

[Kaos]

Feb 18, 2023 3:19:09 GMT -5 sinfull said:

150cc gy6 swap is the bread and butter, easy to order a mount kit and all the fancy parts. Order a long case so you can do the fat tire 12.

Alot of people will still talk trash about the gy6 and the electric problems and say this sucks and that sucks, but they have also never split a gy6. Bearings are good for what the engine is.

Order from Amazon and delivered to the door, goes catastrophic failure in like 5 yrs order another and 2 bolts to put in.

I've never understood why people knock the GY6. Unless you get a horrible bottom shelf China example they're really good motors. You can flog the hells outa them and they keep on going. I put almost 40k miles on my Buddy's original GY6 based engine before it finally let go and said enough. 

[furiousbob]

Feb 17, 2023 11:49:58 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

Yamaha SMAX 155cc makes 2HP less than the old CN250. They aren't huge scoots so it's probably a little easier to fit. All the modern stuff... EFI, LC, 4V. They are regularly reviewed as 70MPH capable. Depends just how much power you are after. Yamaha XMAX 300 is just shy of 28HP, but as you move to big scoots I'd imagine it's gonna get harder and harder to swap it and make it look anywhere near normal. Not the sort of thing you'd ride around and pretend it's still a 50... Not that we'd ever do that anyway.

Could just be a badass and do an LC 2T swap. RC1 94cc is about 25-30HP. Not EFI... but those 4T scoots aren't gonna sing at 14,000RPM and puff out cool smoke either. 😁

I like the idea of the SMAX but I'm looking to keep the budget down.  The projects have gotten quite numerous recently.

I found a wrecked Reflex about 4 hrs north of me for $1000.  I think I'd have to wait to find a wrecked SMAX.  Are they horizontal motors?

The RC1 appears to cost about $4k.  A bit spendy.  What is the LC motor?  Wasn't able to find much info on it.

[furiousbob]

Feb 18, 2023 3:19:09 GMT -5 sinfull said:

150cc gy6 swap is the bread and butter, easy to order a mount kit and all the fancy parts. Order a long case so you can do the fat tire 12.

Alot of people will still talk trash about the gy6 and the electric problems and say this sucks and that sucks, but they have also never split a gy6. Bearings are good for what the engine is.

Order from Amazon and delivered to the door, goes catastrophic failure in like 5 yrs order another and 2 bolts to put in.

I honestly don't have any issues with the GY6... except for my buddy with his GY6 swapped ruckus that keeps talking trash about my scooters.  He purchased it already built.  I build my own scooters.   

Anyway that's a story for another day.  I've ridden it and it's quick and it would save me a lot of headache BUT I'm also a fabricator by trade so I need to make something from scratch ^_^

[90GTVert]

Feb 19, 2023 21:32:15 GMT -5 furiousbob said:

I think I'd have to wait to find a wrecked SMAX.  Are they horizontal motors?

Yup.

Feb 19, 2023 21:32:15 GMT -5 furiousbob said:

The RC1 appears to cost about $4k.  A bit spendy.  What is the LC motor?  Wasn't able to find much info on it.

LC = Liquid Cooled

[sinfull]

Trust me, I understand the whole build it thing, my current scooter is a pile of parts I bought from a tweaker 😀 but she runs strong and rides straight. Body plastics don't match, self tappers and duct tape holding them together. But she starts reliable.

Keep building and riding, coolest bikes that always get the most attention are the daily riders with the mismatched parts and the miles 😀

[furiousbob]

Ok we got em! Found a crashed Reflex about 4 hrs from me. And a non running Metro about... 4 hrs from me.

Dragged em both back home. Reflex runs. Just needed a new bystarter. Metro... I cannot figure out. But the motor's coming out anyway. I'll start a build thread soon.

[Kaos]

Apr 29, 2023 20:48:16 GMT -5 furiousbob said:

Ok we got em! Found a crashed Reflex about 4 hrs from me. And a non running Metro about... 4 hrs from me.

Dragged em both back home. Reflex runs. Just needed a new bystarter. Metro... I cannot figure out. But the motor's coming out anyway. I'll start a build thread soon.

Can't wait to see how it comes out!