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Post by ApeShit70 on Mar 16, 2023 17:59:55 GMT -5
Ok, so because last year I had so many problems and could not get my scoot running I was thinking of having it professionally built. I found someone on Facebook and he seemed legit until I asked him if he checked squish clearance and what else he does? And this was his response.
When you are dealing with race spec engines, you can't assemble an engine with checking squish . That's asking for failure. There's so many other things evolving a engine assembly
Now is this true? I thought squish clearance was a100% make sure you check when dealing with race engines?? Ricardo Cunha is his name out of new York I believe.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 16, 2023 22:47:28 GMT -5
I took a quick look and he seems legit at a glance. Maybe that's his way of saying that there's more to it than squish checks? Perhaps saying it's not a slap it together and if squish is good then the engine is perfect kind of build? I'd hope he checks squish. Regardless of any value that he may think it has (or doesn't have), it's an important clearance check. Request clarification and make sure he knows what you want IMO. See if you can get an estimate so you have an idea of cost. If he's planning some in-depth build, then the bill could be very high.
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Post by snaker on Mar 17, 2023 9:48:20 GMT -5
Ok, so because last year I had so many problems and could not get my scoot running I was thinking of having it professionally built. I found someone on Facebook and he seemed legit until I asked him if he checked squish clearance and what else he does? And this was his response. When you are dealing with race spec engines, you can't assemble an engine with checking squish . That's asking for failure. There's so many other things evolving a engine assembly Now is this true? I thought squish clearance was a100% make sure you check when dealing with race engines?? Ricardo Cunha is his name out of new York I believe. Big jumps to go from can't get it running to professionally built to race spec? A proper "improved stock" can be a good thing, but race spec will generally help nothing with reliability, often hindering. I did some motorcycle road racing back in the day and I preferred improved stock class's due to lower cost and higher reliability. Improved stock essentially means doing perfect maintenance and minor, but useful mods. I have never seen a motor class that bounced around "race" more than the scooter world. Even the car world has the decency to call screwing around "hotrodding" Watch a few of those car building tv shows and you will see two things: 1. They nonchalantly talk about throwing $40,000 into the machines scooter peps want a "race build" for $200 2. Seems like every time a car with previous work shows up for a refresh, the new expert does nothing but bad mouth the last expert. So in the end, you shop around and make your best choice, then live with it. |
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Post by ApeShit70 on Mar 20, 2023 11:53:08 GMT -5
Well I have most the parts. He was just going to match the case to the cylinder and assemble the engine. He quoted me 350$ to do it. He also said that he didn't test run the engines because he didn't have a dyno?! I would still think he would test run them to make sure it doesn't blow up on the first start. That's why I'm kinda thinking I should just do it myself. I really. Elie e my problem was that my ignition was stock and wasent capable of handling the stage6 mk1 race cylinder I have?
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Post by Lucass2T on Mar 21, 2023 1:35:51 GMT -5
Why have some random guy build your engine when there are dirtbike shops who do this stuff for a living. They build, modify, overhaul, port, tune 2t motors all day. Why not go there or ship the motor there?
Do the port matching yourself and have the shop install the crank.
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Mar 21, 2023 14:43:00 GMT -5
I'd PERSONALLY be weary of anyone who calls a build 'race spec' for a scooter... Lets be real here. Race spec means 'legal for a specific racing league'. We're on scooters. Outside of a few countries in Asia there are no scooter racing leagues...
This leads to confusion as to WHAT he's building... Is it a mild 70cc engine just above stock? Is it a 200cc Minarelli dual cylinder conversion?
I've found that often shops that use language like that means they don't regularly build engines like that.
I could be wrong, or I'm misunderstanding things. But I'd want to know EXACTLY what that means. And I'd ask him if he's checking squish AND other things. Because not knowing what your compression ratio is or if your piston is gonna kiss your head at high RPM is asking for trouble.
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Post by aeroxbud on Mar 21, 2023 15:53:03 GMT -5
We have scooter racing here. They race on race tracks used for racing cars and motorcycles. Usually the smaller tracks.
It's a feeder class to proper motorcycle racing. It's really big in Spain and Italy.
That's what the RC-one engines were built for.
Lucas has posted some serious AM6 racing videos before too.
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Post by Lucass2T on Mar 21, 2023 16:43:25 GMT -5
Race spec engines, designed and built for racing. From billet aluminumiumiuium where a set of (empty!) engine cases alone will set you back a measly 1700 dollarses.
@koas Europe and especially Italy has a very rich scooter racing culture.
Even a small county like Holland has multiple racing classes.
See below, Dutch Freetech prototype class. 25+hp, 95+ mph 50cc road race bikes
Pretty gnarly. Those bikes are race spec!
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Mar 21, 2023 16:50:17 GMT -5
Race spec engines, designed and built for racing. From billet aluminumiumiuium where a set of (empty!) engine cases alone will set you back a measly 1700 dollarses. @koas Europe and especially Italy has a very rich scooter racing culture. Even a small county like Holland has multiple racing classes. See below, Dutch Freetech prototype class. 25+hp, 95+ mph 50cc road race bikes Pretty gnarly. Those bikes are race spec! Well, I guess I stand corrected! I had no idea there was racing in Europe as well! Thats exactly what I meant by race spec though, those racing classes will have rules as to what can and cannot be run hence 'race spec'. I will say with the OP being in the USA where its still not much of a thing that I'd still ask the same questions, but I've now got a long deep dive of new youtube videos to watch 
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 21, 2023 18:51:05 GMT -5
Racing is a weird term that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I use it for my RC-One and said the TPR 86cc was a racing style engine. I say the RC-One is a racing engine... or high end or hyper race. This is all marketing stuff for 2T scoots. Sport, midrace, race, hyper race. Race spec then gets lost in if it's a high RPM screamer with a lot of horsepower or built to meet an actual class spec. Generally, I think most will just think of a 2T scooter racing engine as the high rev and big HP build. I agree that true race spec would be built specifically for a racing class, but that's not likely what the advertiser in question means. By that definition, I could go buy a brand new scoot and not touch it and call it race spec if there's a stock class. It would be quite disappointing if I told you I was bringing over my new race spec scoot and showed up on a stock 49cc though.
The same thing happens in cars to some degree. It used to be common to hear things like, "it's got a three quarter race cam". That really just meant it was a cam that wasn't quite as much lift and duration and whatever they were calling a race camshaft. Even if you had a full race cam, what did that mean? A race car could be some purpose built monster... or any car that you race.
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Mar 21, 2023 18:55:03 GMT -5
Racing is a weird term that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I use it for my RC-One and said the TPR 86cc was a racing style engine. I say the RC-One is a racing engine... or high end or hyper race. This is all marketing stuff for 2T scoots. Sport, midrace, race, hyper race. Race spec then gets lost in if it's a high RPM screamer with a lot of horsepower or built to meet an actual class spec. Generally, I think most will just think of a 2T scooter racing engine as the high rev and big HP build. I agree that true race spec would be built specifically for a racing class, but that's not likely what the advertiser in question means. By that definition, I could go buy a brand new scoot and not touch it and call it race spec if there's a stock class. It would be quite disappointing if I told you I was bringing over my new race spec scoot and showed up on a stock 49cc though. Yup, I think we're basically saying the same thing... That builder is saying 'race spec'. He MIGHT mean a fully built RC-One engine thats putting down 30HP. Or he might mean a 70cc BBK and a pipe on an otherwise mostly stock engine. Since the only actual definition of 'race spec' is 'to the specs of a race class' but it gets used so much to mean practically any higher performance engine the OP should get a solid list of what that means to the builder. That way he doesn't expect a mean machine and the builder shows up with a stock 49cc with a China-pipe  |
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Post by pete130 on Apr 10, 2023 1:43:56 GMT -5
Ok, so because last year I had so many problems and could not get my scoot running I was thinking of having it professionally built. I found someone on Facebook and he seemed legit until I asked him if he checked squish clearance and what else he does? And this was his response. When you are dealing with race spec engines, you can't assemble an engine with checking squish . That's asking for failure. There's so many other things evolving a engine assembly Now is this true? I thought squish clearance was a100% make sure you check when dealing with race engines?? Ricardo Cunha is his name out of new York I believe. As you said squish has to be set up, its a pain if you don't know which gasket to use, but a must do, same as ring gap and on a race motor its even more important, your asking for trouble if you don't do on a high spec motor |
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Post by ThomasTPFL on Apr 10, 2023 22:09:22 GMT -5
So.. you’ve used spacer gaskets to get the ports opening where you want them to, now the squish is massive, so you face the jug or inset the head, now the squish is good but the combustion chamber and squish band are all wonky so you have to redo all that.
I tried to get everything in the general neighborhood of idea on the Motobecane I’m building and I went through lots of wadded up aluminum foil in that cylinder.
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Post by ApeShit70 on Apr 11, 2023 23:15:36 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to just build it myself. I've learned a lot from this forum. Basically everything I know about scoots came from here.plus I have another engine e being shipped here. Hopefully will be here soon.
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Post by cryslr on Apr 16, 2023 15:24:33 GMT -5
Scooter Swap Shop out of P-town build some mean scooters. I'd go with them, they have great customer service and excellent products.
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