Learners

[captincvmn]

On a positive note, I did get my motorcycle learners permit today. I felt a little guilty running my 70cc bike when I’m legally not allowed to operate a bike higher than 49.9cc.

[FrankenMech]

I got my Motorcycle endorsement way back when it started and I was grandfathered in. It hasn't stopped me from riding multitudes of bikes from 50cc to full dress Harleys with no damn learners permit. I never even had a auto learners permit and I have been driving since I was 10. Things were a little more relaxed back in the dark ages.

[90GTVert]

I got my motorcycle endorsement to ride larger stuff, but I've always hoped it may get me a little lenience should I have an issue riding faster on a "49cc". Not sure how much it matters here though. In MD above and below 50cc are 2 different classes and not registered the same. They don't seem to want to let me register a "49cc" as a motorcycle regardless of it's capability so I'm never really supposed to go beyond 30MPH regardless of license status. I don't worry much about actual displacement. I think it's much more likely that I'd get caught going well over 30 than just to be pulled over and suspected of having a larger displacement. I know Ryan has PA motorcycle tags on his Zuma so it seems like you'd have a much better chance of actually being legal if you get the license.

[captincvmn]

Yeah, I have MC tags on mine I suspect it has more to do with the lack of pedals than engine size though. Either way my learners says “no passengers, no nighttime riding” which most of my free time is after dark so……whatever.

[90GTVert]

If it were me, those stipulations wouldn't bother me. I'm just riding a 49cc scooter around like I was before. If on an obvious motorcycle, then it would be a different story. Is PA one of those states where people just get a learner's over and over and never bother with an endorsement? If not, then hopefully you'll be fully fledged soon enough anyway. Once you get that, you can drive right past the Harley dealers and head straight for the cool guys club with a TMAX. 😁

[captincvmn]

In PA you can get your learners a maximum of 4 times in 5 years or some such nonsense. I passed my test with 18/20 and took one sample test online. It should be easy for a 51 yr old who’s been scootin for three years now. Two questions caught me out.

“When riding in a group and the lead cyclist passes a car what part of the lane should they return to after passing the car?”

I said right as that is what was shown in the picture previous to them passing but the correct answer was left.

“When riding in traffic what part of the lane should you be in?”

I screwed this one up. Choices were left/right/center with attached misleading explanations with each part of the lane. I picked left side of the lane. Correct was center as it stops cars from trying to share your lane. I was going back to my father’s cycle training days when he got his bike and I remembered him saying over and over about the “grease spot” in the center of a lane being dangerous. Well I guess cars don’t drip as much now?

[90GTVert]

IIRC the test I took would give you situations and ask where you should be, because there's no 1 correct position for every circumstance. They can be tricky though. Most of the time in the real world I evaluate the surroundings and decide based on what I think is best. Where can I be seen the best (or where can't a cop see me doing 60 on a 49cc lol)? Where are the hazards and where should I be to best avoid them? If there are strong wind gusts, I'll ride closer the where the wind is coming from so it is less likely to push me out of the lane of travel. Stuff like that. The fact that you think about it and have things to consider pointed out is probably the real win of the paper testing. The main time that I avoid the center is at and very near intersections... but you've also gotta be careful not to put yourself in a position where you put your foot down on anything slick. A little slip is not awful on a little scoot, but foot slip sucks on a heavy bike.

All of these things that most people never think about in a car are why I think 2 wheeled training could help anyone be a better driver.

[FrankenMech]

Just keep studying so you know the 'politically correct' desk jockey answers for the test. Then when riding go with the best position for existing conditions. Cars use the best positions also to avoid ice, potholes, sand, gravel, oil, water, dangerous loads on trucks, etc... The tests always seem to assume nice clean smooth wide open traffic lanes which is far far from reality.

[FrankenMech]

BTW- Laws change over the years. No 'person' is safe when the legislature (or city council) is in session. The legislature and others employ enforcement agents with guns and permission to shoot you dead if you do not comply with their rules. They used to call that the protection racket but it has been codified into the LAW and we all have to pay protection and OBEY.

[Lucass2T]

Sorry for hijacking, whats the process of getting a motorcycle licence over there?
Im reading learners permit, motorcycle endorsement, but what does it mean?
Are there also different levels/steps between individual licences like we here in Holland have?

[90GTVert]

Mar 21, 2023 8:34:24 GMT -5 Lucass2T said:

Sorry for hijacking, whats the process of getting a motorcycle licence over there?
Im reading learners permit, motorcycle endorsement, but what does it mean?
Are there also different levels/steps between individual licences like we here in Holland have?

It will vary from state to state in the US. We all have a little different laws and testing to deal with.

In general, I think most here will need a learner's permit and a license.

The learner's permit part is usually the result of passing a written (computer) test. They ask questions about lane position, what you should do if you get a flat, group riding, braking etc... specific to motorcycles. I already had a car/truck driver's license which covered the basic rules of the road, so I'm not sure if it would be different if you didn't already have that.

When on a learner's permit, there are usually restrictions. In some states it may just be the time of day that you can ride (not at night). In my state I was not allowed to ride alone. I had to have someone over 21 that possessed a motorcycle license for a few years with me at all times. They could be on the bike or on another bike. The learner's permit usually has an expiration that isn't too far off, but I think some states do a whole year.

Once you're confident that you know how to maneuver the bike, you can go take a skills test. Passing that lets you get your full motorcycle license. That varies. Some states look pretty tough, some are fairly basic. Cone weaving, slow riding, quick stop, turning around are a few examples of tests. I'm not sure if/where it's done anymore, but at least some areas used to have on road tests where an instructor would follow you. It used to be like that here for cars, but by the time I got my license in the 90s I did parking lot testing for that as well.

Once you get your motorcycle license, you should be able to ride anything classified as a motorcycle. Not sure if that varies in any states. There's also a J license here for trikes. You can get that and ride trikes but not motorcycles, but if you have a motorcycle license you can ride trikes.

We have Motorcycle Safety Courses here in the US where you can get your license quickly. Basically, you attend some classes. Then they take you out and instruct you on small motorcycles (250 Nighthawks and Rebels seemed popular around here). If you can pass all of those activities, you get a certificate that you can present to get your full license without other testing. Some people take Motorcycle Safety Courses even after they have a license because they provide good instruction and offer more advanced classes... plus you may be able to get a discount on motorcycle insurance for completing it.


Here are some skills tests from my state that I was practicing before my license, with video on a scoot. I have practiced for the same tests on a sportbike in the past and it's significantly harder. Some people are running businesses where they rent 150cc scooters for motorcycle skills tests because it's so much easier to pass that way. In MD at least, I can't take the test on 49cc. It has to be registered and tagged as a motorcycle, so 150s are the common and cheap way to get one of the smallest/lightest 2-wheelers to take the test. So, I took my test on a 150cc and I could immediately go out and ride an H2 or Goldwing if I wanted to.

49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/348/basic-rider-skills-practice-exercises

[Lucass2T]

Mar 21, 2023 18:31:45 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

Mar 21, 2023 8:34:24 GMT -5 Lucass2T said:

Sorry for hijacking, whats the process of getting a motorcycle licence over there?
Im reading learners permit, motorcycle endorsement, but what does it mean?
Are there also different levels/steps between individual licences like we here in Holland have?

It will vary from state to state in the US. We all have a little different laws and testing to deal with.

In general, I think most here will need a learner's permit and a license.

The learner's permit part is usually the result of passing a written (computer) test. They ask questions about lane position, what you should do if you get a flat, group riding, braking etc... specific to motorcycles. I already had a car/truck driver's license which covered the basic rules of the road, so I'm not sure if it would be different if you didn't already have that.

When on a learner's permit, there are usually restrictions. In some states it may just be the time of day that you can ride (not at night). In my state I was not allowed to ride alone. I had to have someone over 21 that possessed a motorcycle license for a few years with me at all times. They could be on the bike or on another bike. The learner's permit usually has an expiration that isn't too far off, but I think some states do a whole year.

Once you're confident that you know how to maneuver the bike, you can go take a skills test. Passing that lets you get your full motorcycle license. That varies. Some states look pretty tough, some are fairly basic. Cone weaving, slow riding, quick stop, turning around are a few examples of tests. I'm not sure if/where it's done anymore, but at least some areas used to have on road tests where an instructor would follow you. It used to be like that here for cars, but by the time I got my license in the 90s I did parking lot testing for that as well.

Once you get your motorcycle license, you should be able to ride anything classified as a motorcycle. Not sure if that varies in any states. There's also a J license here for trikes. You can get that and ride trikes but not motorcycles, but if you have a motorcycle license you can ride trikes.

We have Motorcycle Safety Courses here in the US where you can get your license quickly. Basically, you attend some classes. Then they take you out and instruct you on small motorcycles (250 Nighthawks and Rebels seemed popular around here). If you can pass all of those activities, you get a certificate that you can present to get your full license without other testing. Some people take Motorcycle Safety Courses even after they have a license because they provide good instruction and offer more advanced classes... plus you may be able to get a discount on motorcycle insurance for completing it.


Here are some skills tests from my state that I was practicing before my license, with video on a scoot. I have practiced for the same tests on a sportbike in the past and it's significantly harder. Some people are running businesses where they rent 150cc scooters for motorcycle skills tests because it's so much easier to pass that way. In MD at least, I can't take the test on 49cc. It has to be registered and tagged as a motorcycle, so 150s are the common and cheap way to get one of the smallest/lightest 2-wheelers to take the test. So, I took my test on a 150cc and I could immediately go out and ride an H2 or Goldwing if I wanted to.

49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/348/basic-rider-skills-practice-exercises

So if I understand right, when one passes his learners permit which is a theoretical test, he/she is allowed on the road on any 2-wheeled vehicle? Ofcourse with some of those restrictions you mentioned earlier like not riding alone. Or is it also limited to max 50 or 125cc or something? Going from the general opinion, how difficult would you say this learners permit is? 

This learners permit test, doesn't focus on traffic law, rules etc? Only practical tips and tricks? Can you go buy a 300hp Kawasaki H2 and ride within the restrictions?


After that you may choose to do a skills test and if you pass, you receive your motorcycle licence?
Or does it take more than that something like riding a random route on the road trough traffic being assessed by a certified driving school instructor or something?

[captincvmn]

In PA if you have your learners and a regular license for cars you can ride anything with two wheels during daylight hours and you may not carry a passenger unless passenger has their motorcycle endorsement. Valid for one year.

Once I passed written I could get on a 2023 Hyabusa and be legal during daylight.

[90GTVert]

Mar 21, 2023 19:03:23 GMT -5 Lucass2T said:

So if I understand right, when one passes his learners permit which is a theoretical test, he/she is allowed on the road on any 2-wheeled vehicle? Ofcourse with some of those restrictions you mentioned earlier like not riding alone. Or is it also limited to max 50 or 125cc or something? Going from the general opinion, how difficult would you say this learners permit is? 

This learners permit test, doesn't focus on traffic law, rules etc? Only practical tips and tricks? Can you go buy a 300hp Kawasaki H2 and ride within the restrictions?


After that you may choose to do a skills test and if you pass, you receive your motorcycle licence?
Or does it take more than that something like riding a random route on the road trough traffic being assessed by a certified driving school instructor or something?

In most states (possibly all) they don't limit motorcycle displacement on a learner's permit or license. There are sometimes moped licenses where you can get a license just for small bikes. Usually for folks that just want to ride a scooter/moped that don't want the additional processes to get a motorcycle or car license. When I was in the process of getting my license, there were rumors of laws changing to make classes of M licenses more similar to what I've heard about overseas. If you passed on a 150 for example, you may only be able to ride up to a 250. Not sure what classes were exactly, but something like that. I've had my motorcycle license for I think 7 years now and nothing has changed so that may have been nothing but a rumor.

IMO the learner's is easy. You can get a copy of the motorcycle handbook (LINK FOR MD). Each state has their own version or some use one from the Motorcycle Safety Foundation. Read that. It's not too long. Go in and take the test. You don't have to get 100% to pass. It's a lot of general motorcycle safety. I just looked it up and if you haven't got a car license, then you have to take that written test too because it focuses a lot more on traffic laws.

Here's an example of a common skills test. For most of us, if you can pass that then you are good to go. Plenty of examples on YouTube for various states. This was pretty similar to my experience with the parking lot course and instructor. The hardest part can be following instructions precisely if you have a very picky instructor. I was there when a friend failed because he put his visor up to hear the instructor and forgot to lower it before doing the exercise (lack of required eye protection).

[Lucass2T]

Thanks Brent for enlightening me!
Wow that really amazes me how easy it is to legally ride a motorcycle! I am a little shocked too. Someone with literally zero riding skills and zero real life traffic experience can go out on the streets on any 200+hp missile of a motorcycle...
You basically don't need anything, just pass the learners permit.
You can't even imagine how much harder (and prob more expensive!) it is to get a motorcycle licence over here in Europe.