stubbornness need to stop NOW. back to snapping belts again

[br4inl3ss]

the damn stubbornness of people here, onr eddit, and facebook group....
no matter the knoledge people have.. stubbornness make it so the help is completly useless.

people said to stop using cheap belt, even tho they were better than other i had. ok. i bought a 1PZ premium kevlar belt. SNAPPED IN LESS THAN 150 KM.

lucky me i was riding with someone i dont fucking know. we were just going each our way and it ended up bein the same way. i was in front, because im 72cc he was stock 50cc. when the belt snapped he stopped by trying to help. nothing he could do i had everything with me because i cant take a single damn ride without it breaking belt. when i put out my very slim Dongil ( high quality, but over used ) belt he saw how slim it was ( 15mm instead of 17.5 ). he then said he always carry a spare belt because he ride alot and he rarely is home. i was so damn lucky, his scooter ( Scootterre Voyager ) use the same belt. the belt he carry is a bando premium belt. right now he run a standard bando but carry a premium kevlar one. so since he see me almost everyday he know i wont run away and wanted me to install it to go back home instead of running my "string" belt that cause a 9200 cruise rpm at 55 km/h. we can go to next step.

got a Bando premium... IT FUCKING SNAPPED IN LESS THAN 10 KM. he fell on his ass seeing how fast my scooter break belts.
he checked alignment because he had a similar issue with his zuma 2t ( not snapping but shredding ). he said its fine. 

when my 1pz belt snapped, the drive face and variator and the boss was so damn hot ( with the plastic fan melting on the drive face ), we turned the lights off and we could see it red ( barely, hard to see, but we did see it. it didnt alst long tho ). i throwed it in water on the side of the road, my god we could hear it boil. he never saw such overheating issue. no wonder why no belt last and why fan melt.
he said to ask on the internet its not normal... oh buddy if you know... trying to figure this out since 2 damn eyars, only getting " cheap belt get bando ".
he started laughing, he used ONLY cheap belt in the past and never had any problem. they dont last as lng, but they're good. well i had the same feelign with mine. but as you see, even top quality belt snap in no time.
the drive face burnt my glove. weird, i use them on VERY hot surface on a daily basis, and never happened before.
stock spring = belt snapping. 1000 rpm spring = belt snapping. 2000 rpm spring = belt snapping. did i say BELT SNAPPING ?

i have a Naraku in the mail but i will N O T install it. it will snap. its not related to belt quality, as i said at least 20 time. but people are so stubborn they refuse to read and just copy&past " cheap belt " " get bando " " get naraku " " get gates "... 
reddit bein the worse of them all. dont even know why there is such """" helping """" subreddit...
now i owe a belt i didnt even bought and i didnt really use.
now im stuck with absolutly NO variator fan. they both melted and unrepairable.
there is even melted white plastic from the fan glued to the side of the belt.

WHY ON EARTH DO CVT KEEP OVERHEATING TO THAT POINT AND NAP ANY BELT EVEN PREMIUM BELT SO FAST
its not alignment. checked over 10 time in 2 years, and proved to be very straight.
its not cheap belt.
itsd not bad variator.
its not bad drive face ( i tought it was... )
its not the clutch.
its not the "sheave".
its not engine overheating ( well not anymore, at least )
its not clogged cvt venting.

once i asked if i should feel some air flow on any end of the cvt, no one answered. but i know that i cannot feel any airflow. once i did put a cardboard between the cvt and wheel so wind from the wheel doesnt kill the candle, and even at 8500 rpm it BARELY make the flame move. pretty sure its air from under the door and not from cvt. i tought that the missing plastic under the foot board could cause a no air flow issue so no air actually enter the case. but not sure if its the issue... ruckus doesnt have this plastic... maddog chuckus either. 


i have no scooter to ride now for a long time ( no fan and it overheat with it so imagine running without ) because of stubborness about cheap belt and bad alignment. i dont understand how such good people and with such knowledge get so stubborn... if it was just text, ok. possible there is some lies.. but when its proven .....

the only nearby help i have irl is my brother. but he is stubborn they're made like that and ALL of those overheat and snap belt from factory   thats weird, the scootterre ( same long case engine but with rear disc brake ) is PERFECT... the taotao racer also use the same engine iirc, and they dont do that.

the only thing i can think off is the missing plastic causing a huge lack of air flow in the cvt. but i dont see how it could be such a dramatic change in cvt temp.




imgur.com/doTs0ig










no pics from the Bando belt. he picked all the parts of it and went home with it as a proof when he tell this horror story.

[aeroxbud]

Did you replace the rear pulley yet? From the video you posted it looked shot to me. I have never seen one with so much play before.

[br4inl3ss]

oh... what a surprise.. NOW ( i specify NOW because it wasnt like that 2 weeks ago ) the small bearing in the driven pulley is jammed. and the bigger one ( needle bearing ) seems to be turning but with minor "hit". its not completly smooth.

excessive heating NOT FROM ALIGNMENT ( and i dont think its from cheap belt but that one is possible... how it feels, rpm related, didnt change a thing cheap vs "good" belt ) killed my bearings.

i do understand the abuse of "cheap parts", but at this point, NO. sorry. even the canada biggest chinese parts importer ( Importation Thibault ) never seen such a horror story with any cheap parts. they also import brand name parts like malossi polini and so on for minarelli.

now that i take measurment of my bearing, and whole clutch assembly, it looks like if its not overrange, its exactly the same parts for both 139qmb and bws/zuma, aprilia sr50, everything with a minarelli. all the parts ive checked to date seems to fit. for now i know the needle bearing, clutch, and clutch bell fit. they're EXACTLY the same part number and/or identical measurments. but cant really be sure since i would need to buy one to compare.

[br4inl3ss]

May 28, 2023 14:20:01 GMT -5 aeroxbud said:

Did you replace the rear pulley yet? From the video you posted it looked shot to me. I have never seen one with so much play before.

sorry didnt see you message while writing the last one.
no i didnt. $$$$$ reason... but i found used but good condition seals and replaced them. no play and no leaks.... but now that it overheated yertersay, minor play appeared. i found no grease yet but i know it will leak soon.


EDIT: inspected the pulley assembly... seals seems fine for now. the thing slide freely and cant feel anything.
while there, i found older bearings that are used and not perfect but in better condition. so i swapped both.

i can find QUALITY parts for them searching for honda dio, but i cannot afford that. i used to, but not anymore too much money spent on that thing.
variator and clutch assy are the same for dio and 139qmb. spent 3 hours in parts catalog at Importation Thibault, and found out that everything transmission ( but the belt and fan ) are the same part number for both, with any brands ( ncy, sspg, 101 octane, malossi, polini, and so on... ) as well for PGO Big Max scooter.  did a search, and apparently they're not minareli engine... but looking at scootertuning, they are ??

still dont know if i can fit one. you may ask why im looking there if i cant afford it... SIMPLE : used parts are all around for decent price. but only for minarelli nothing for dio or 139qmb. right there i could get a full assembly ( replaced for racing parts ) for 30 CAD, OEM yamaha parts so good quality. its 15 minute away only... but not gonna buy if it doesnt fit....

[br4inl3ss]

small update.
found a honda dio rear pulley ( both half ) set on scootertuning fron NCY. its 120$ CAD.
www.scootertuning.ca/en/variators-oversize-cvt/1490017-rear-pulley-ncy-dio-elite-1000000007163.html
knowing that its the same part number for 99.9% of cvt parts for both Dio and 139qmb, i ordered it.
for months of research, basically only the cover and the belt are different.
for exemple full clutch assembly is the same part number for at least 7 different brands, from multiple source.
also needed the plastic fan since mine are all melted. 5$ CAD each x2.
also added naraku shims kit, 6.99 CAD.
also a polini yellow contra spring.
so i borrowed the money hoping to fix this DAMN issue.
its sad i have to pay such a price for a parts from another scotoer because other places scam big time with shipping and i wont buy unreputed chinese parts anymore, so this one was my only option.

ill need to buy a quality variator after i pay back the 200$. when its time to order a variator, i have some options. another naraku ( i really liked it and its quality, but cvt overheating and belt snapping constantly killed it ), a polini, and so on ( gonna skip the malossi one, only bad experience around me on 139qmb ). i have lots of options.
variator too is the same part number from multiple source and multiple model. i measured got a dio owner to measure stock variator and compared it to friendly stealership stock Scootterre Bistro 50, exactly the same everywhere but ramp angle. and ramp angle, who care.. its stock and i wont go stock.

hopefully it will fix my issue for good. waiting on canada post t stop trolling and pick the package at scootertuning.

[kosmos]

I seen a comment the other day and what I think is your belt is too tight. Have you or did you check it how I asked? By feel and like a glove? Someone had a e-ton scooter and their belt was 780-16.5-28. Now that you've bought a dio part tho, the thing that dictates the width of the belt between drive and driven pulleys are, the driven (clutch part) pulley and the front its about the drive boss.
wished some people knew about how these things work, engineered. And some people helped you with your issue. I found I have an overheating problem and im 99% sure its from a belt thats too tight. Couldn't even tune the carburetor, bike ran fantastic but overheated. Changed back to the stock old belt and No more overheating. Thats why I like that I have a name brand to get belts from. measured it and 1/8 of an inch smaller on the belts outside diameter thats too tight.
Both of my belts are supposed to be a 641-15.5-30 belt, one "Made In Japan" but it was not a honda brand and measured 1/8 of an inch shorter, and didn't do the 'like a glove' feel test. ive asked if anyone else had any experiences with this, positive or negative and I had no responses. But I had overheating issues like you did.
I'd suggest a longer belt, stick with your yamaha angles and widths, or you'll have to shim the drive boss. Problem I see is the belt being pulled too tight in the front from the less width between the pulleys if you run a wider belt than your stock belt, and when its tightened down it'll put too much stress on the CVT system. Putting too much friction in it, causing it to overheat. THen if you switch to a wider than stock belt, you have to find belts in that width in the actual length you are required. Someone mentioned an e-ton using a 16.5mm wide belt. maybe thats yours.

[br4inl3ss]

thanks.
its way tither than " like a glove ". couldnt check with shims since i didnt have any. but i have a set of Naraku shims on the way with the dio rear pulley ( also 2 plastic variator fan and Polini yellow Evo spring ).

today i received the only and UNIQUE ( not available anymore out of stock ) Naraku belt in canada available without getting hard scammed ( paid 40 shipped, other place from the us want about 90 to 140 shipped and weeks to wait ). and unlike others cheap and Bando belts, this one actually measure 732mm. longer yeah but at least its not 1cm - 1.5cm shorter. what a change !
still way too tight ( probably cheap Glixal variator causing this ), but doesnt sit like its in 5th gear. more like 3rd gear.

i did not test anything yet but just fitting the belt ( didnt even start the engine ) i want to wait the rear pulley before testing properly.

for longer belt, ive been trying to find info for months about this... all i could find is the 125cc belt ( or 150 ? ) but its 743-20... longer is allright... wider is allright.. but longer AND wider ? pretty sure its way too much.

some people like Motomode told me to get a yamaha bw's ( zuma in the us ) stock belt... but no way im gonna order that without knowing it have a chance to fit. and no one want to give measurments.
i found a malossi belt ( 732-16.? ) but its even thinner than my stock belt ( 729-17.7 ). probably worse even tho its longer.

[kosmos]

did your stock belt have a number on it? Your bike is chinese and it's hard to find like a manual to even tell you what the stock parts are. Yamaha's use 17.7 or ive seen an eton that runs a 16.5mm wide belt. the belt rides on those V-angles + the width is how far down it will go into the V-Pulleys so it adds to the circumferance the belt has to be. Anything with a better fit would be better than too small, width or circumference, so I'd go with something longer maybe try 2 different sizes and find which one fits best, nad like a glove would be ideal, more would be fine just lose some speed but you won't have CVT problems, and too tight just I .. havent tested if a new Honda brand belt that fits 'like a glove' doesn't overheat my bike now compared to the new Made in Japan bando belt I bought but, I'll be posting in my topic when I do. But my guess is tight belts are causing too much heat because of the extra friction. My problem is either that, or my chinese jet I tried wasn't made right is more than 1 size bigger because it was too rich when I tried jetting to fix the heat issue. Then I tried my old belt (added a lightened "flywheel" to the mix the whole time) and the heat issues were gone and the jet was too rich so I had to go back down again. No heat issues. Stock belt fits like a glove, its a little thin but I have no overheating issues. Plus I can run down a hill at 60mph way faster than I was going and it wouldn't ever get hotter than 350F.
Check over all of your cvt stuff like the variator and plastic slide guides.  make sure the plastic guides havent cracked or are missing, make sure the variator has no spots dug out in it from a broken slide guide, that the driven pulley hasn't got much play like you showed in that video and do your stuff.
and I wouldnt worry about using shims unless your taking everything into account when you do it.  matching the belt width to the driven and drive pulleys, and the front is dictated by its drive boss, thats where as far as I know use shims.  I don't know what else you can do as far as "modding" goes.  Guess I'm not sure if its the crankshaft being pulled on that is causing the heating build up from smaller drive bosses on modding or if its the torque from the driven pulley putting strain on the belt and cvt causing it.   So i dont know what modding using shims is for.  Just incorporate everything when you put it all together.  width/length/angle

[br4inl3ss]

thanks.
stock belt i have no idea. i know they use 729-17.7-30 those model. when i bought it it was a Dongil Superstar 729-17.5-30.

there is ONE longer belt for gy6 50cc, and its 788. wayyyyy too long and i never seen what model its used on.

i know for sure i have to use shims. when the belt sits on the boss ( without drive face ) we can see that the boss is too short. at least 4mm of the belt is off. so if i install the drive face, it squeeze the belt. can barely put all the stuff with the nut.
or maybe i need a quality variator... but iirc my Naraku variator did the same. dont remember too many problems and too many shit changed while trying to figure everything out.

im out taking a picture.
EDIT: there we go. belt fully seated on the variator

[kosmos]

no if you got the stock boss and a stock belt, the width is fine. thats how they'll look until you tighten up the front drive pulley half variator nut on. then it will squeeze it up there. its meant to do that.
Do you have your old belt to measure? the width? Do you know how old it was or how many miles it had? maybe if you're switching from a 16.5 to a 17.7 it might be too thick. how easy did it slip, after you put it around the driven pulley, over the drive boss? was it a glove fit? or like you had to muscle it on there? they make a few other belt sizes according to partsforscooters about the same width and angle and a little bit longer.

[br4inl3ss]

Jun 5, 2023 19:24:05 GMT -5 kosmos said:

no if you got the stock boss and a stock belt, the width is fine. thats how they'll look until you tighten up the front drive pulley half variator nut on. then it will squeeze it up there. its meant to do that.
Do you have your old belt to measure? the width? Do you know how old it was or how many miles it had? maybe if you're switching from a 16.5 to a 17.7 it might be too thick. how easy did it slip, after you put it around the driven pulley, over the drive boss? was it a glove fit? or like you had to muscle it on there? they make a few other belt sizes according to partsforscooters about the same width and angle and a little bit longer.

the old belt was 17mm wide instead of 17.7mm. it is now my backup belt to get back on when brand new quality belt snap, as it is now 15mm wide.

i do not have the stock boss & stock variator they have been replaced with "unknown" aprts. i dont know it it was standard or performance or even fake performance. 
what i know tho is that the boss was the same lenght as my Naraku Sport variator.

on partsforscooter i think i never found a belt jsut longer. was also wider and by alot

if they are suppose to fit like that on the boss, then why am i the only one like that ?? 
i even asked the local dealership selling Scootterre Bistro ( regadged taotao atm50 ) if i could look at it. he said yes if i happen to be nearby when he ahve to change a belt. they do not fit as far out as mine.
same on youtube. even scooterswapshop told me thats not normal.
also my old DEAD variator doesnt make belt sit this far out. it doesnt squeeze the belt as much even tho it squeeze it.



those are the only two belt that could fit. other are either shorted, way wider or way too long.
www.partsforscooters.com/106-68-Gates-Powerlink-Belt
www.partsforscooters.com/106-76_Gates_Premium_Belt

the first one is too wide.
the last one is the only one that i can think can fit. its the belt some people suggested me ( yamaha stock size belt ).