Timmer
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 128
Location: Mechelen, Belgium
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Post by Timmer on Feb 11, 2024 13:02:08 GMT -5
Builds like these make me nostalgic. I had an MBK Booster Spirit back in the day (2001 somewhere) and it ran around 90-95 km/h. It was one of the most fun things i remember doing as a teenager. I did end up crashing it, which i still regret to this day. Great job on this build billwill, it took me a while to catch up on this topic, but i’m going to follow this one  |
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Post by billwill on Feb 11, 2024 14:20:38 GMT -5
Builds like these make me nostalgic. I had an MBK Booster Spirit back in the day (2001 somewhere) and it ran around 90-95 km/h. It was one of the most fun things i remember doing as a teenager. I did end up crashing it, which i still regret to this day. Great job on this build billwill , it took me a while to catch up on this topic, but i’m going to follow this one Thank you, really appreciate the kind words. This build for me is nostalgic as well. I’m at a point in life where I can now afford most of (certainly not all) the parts I want to throw at this thing, and it was something I really really wanted to own and build up when I was in my late teens. May as well give an update while I’m here. Spent a fair amount of time wrestling with the rear disc setup over the past several days. This was a lot of work. The Voca adapter was well made but the case where the bracket mounts to was not straight on plane so the caliper would sit crooked against the disc. I had to build out some of the case with JB weld to get it flush and straight then play with various sets of washers to sit in between the hub and case, and the disc and hub. Also been doing some tuning and dealing with some other issues. To recap, bike was bogging on takeoff and having a hard time reaching anything above upper 50's except for downhill. Added a few parts including swapping out for a trail tech gauge, c16 pipe, down gearing and ignition parts. When I switched to the trail tech I realized that the stage6 unit I was using was reading low (see previous post) and I was running very lean. Upped the main jet, and then when switching to the timing key, upped it again. The Malossi CDI (flat curve) along with timing key gives the best performance. The Tops variable curve CDI just wasn’t great at high rpm. The bike runs the best it ever has and pulls hard. Just having a hard time getting past 60mph or so. I have what looks like full belt travel on the front and rear pulleys at around 10,500 rpm. Not sure what's going on but going to do a little more tuning. It could be that I need to switch to an over range contra spring. I realized last night that there is actually a difference between them. I swapped my transmission over for my old stage 6 setup and am going to try that today. Current setup: • Stage6 MK2 Sport Pro cylinder (two ring piston/aluminum) • Polini PWK 24 carburetor (45 pilot, 134 main, needle in 2nd richest position, running a Polini open airbox • MHR overrange w/5.3g rollers and yellow contra (switching to stage6 overrange and pink contra) • Malossi CDI • 3º advance timing key • Yasuni C16 exhaust • stage6 clutch with red springs and one brass weight nearest to the pivot point. Adjusted at second large mark from being set to stiffest Like I said, still feel like I should be getting more speed out of this but maybe I just need a longer stretch of flat or I'm too heavy (220lbs) and these Aerox wheels weigh a lot. Hopefully the overrange swap and contra help. Some recent pics:     |
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Timmer
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 128
Location: Mechelen, Belgium
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Post by Timmer on Feb 11, 2024 16:08:39 GMT -5
Well,adding the oversize wheel is unsprung weight, so more mass to put in motion. Iirc, the 'average' high speeds we scored back in the day were around 100km/h (60-ish mph). Sure, there were some unicorns going 110-115kph, but these were tuned (either XSH, DDL, Twins,...) and really pushing the limits of what was possible back then. Those builds were already pushing 2-3000€, and all prone to being seized by law enforcement (as the limits were 25 or 45, depending on what registration you had). Have you considered doint the 'SPITRO' conversion? (Installing a LC Mina hori on the scooter) It adds a lot of potential, as the LC Mina's were known to get to 125-135km/h back in the day (77-84mph). Obviously, i haven't wrenched on a scooter since like '03-04, so a lot may have changed since then. As for the CDI, i think most of us ran an advanced stock cdi, the inner rotor's were good for the sprinters, but not for the daily drivers. 220lbs isn't heavy, i've seen scoots go 60+ mph with dual passengers, but again, those were the Mina Hori LC's... Iirc, the fastest things we had back in the day, were those Piaggio ZIP's... If one of those pulled up, i'd have a quick look at the engine part, and 9 out of 10 be like "naaaah, you got this, i'm good..." And tbh, i'm jealous, i can't make mine go faster then 45km/h (28mph) or i risk losing the scooter, my drivers license (for EVERYTHING), and get a subpoena and probably a massive fine... Given my past expierences with courts and excessive speed, this isn't really something i wish to go through again, as they'll take my previous infractions/misdemeanors into account and could end up with a felony. That said, 60mph is a pretty decent speed on this thing, taking all the above into account. I've always been more fan of the acceleration and nervousity, then flat out top speed. I am in no way 100% sure about all the above, this is from memory and over 20years ago, and due to some medical issue i had in '17 i have lost A LOT of my memories... The only issue i have now, is how i'm going to tell the wife i'm gonna look for a Booster once i finish the Nitro  |
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Post by aeroxbud on Feb 11, 2024 19:11:32 GMT -5
If you think those aerox wheels are heavy. You should feel the weight of a BWS wheel.  |
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Post by billwill on Feb 12, 2024 11:13:38 GMT -5
Well,adding the oversize wheel is unsprung weight, so more mass to put in motion. Iirc, the 'average' high speeds we scored back in the day were around 100km/h (60-ish mph). Sure, there were some unicorns going 110-115kph, but these were tuned (either XSH, DDL, Twins,...) and really pushing the limits of what was possible back then. Those builds were already pushing 2-3000€, and all prone to being seized by law enforcement (as the limits were 25 or 45, depending on what registration you had). Have you considered doint the 'SPITRO' conversion? (Installing a LC Mina hori on the scooter) It adds a lot of potential, as the LC Mina's were known to get to 125-135km/h back in the day (77-84mph). Obviously, i haven't wrenched on a scooter since like '03-04, so a lot may have changed since then. As for the CDI, i think most of us ran an advanced stock cdi, the inner rotor's were good for the sprinters, but not for the daily drivers. 220lbs isn't heavy, i've seen scoots go 60+ mph with dual passengers, but again, those were the Mina Hori LC's... Iirc, the fastest things we had back in the day, were those Piaggio ZIP's... If one of those pulled up, i'd have a quick look at the engine part, and 9 out of 10 be like "naaaah, you got this, i'm good..." And tbh, i'm jealous, i can't make mine go faster then 45km/h (28mph) or i risk losing the scooter, my drivers license (for EVERYTHING), and get a subpoena and probably a massive fine... Given my past expierences with courts and excessive speed, this isn't really something i wish to go through again, as they'll take my previous infractions/misdemeanors into account and could end up with a felony. That said, 60mph is a pretty decent speed on this thing, taking all the above into account. I've always been more fan of the acceleration and nervousity, then flat out top speed. I am in no way 100% sure about all the above, this is from memory and over 20years ago, and due to some medical issue i had in '17 i have lost A LOT of my memories... The only issue i have now, is how i'm going to tell the wife i'm gonna look for a Booster once i finish the Nitro Dude you summed it up perfectly - I am at my wits end with this cylinder and not being able to break the low 60's has hurt my soul LOL. I think I've come to the realization after many weeks of tinkering and tuning that the Stage6 Sport Pro kit is really just that, a Sport kit. Thought and hoped I'd be able to break 70, but I'm convinced I'd have to do some porting or something to get there. I have indeed thought of moving to a horizontal setup, not necessarily liquid cooled, but horizontal. Perhaps I will, but, first I'm trying this: www.scooter-attack.com/en/product/cylinder-mxs-racing-mxs-racing-70cc-piston-pin-10mm-yamaha-bw-s-slider-33924Bought this bad boy last night and hope to get it fitted later this week! This should pair nicely with the Scooter Tube pipe I was trying to tune with earlier. One of the nastiest jugs you can buy for prebug/verticals - I don't do much riding so I don't mind having to rebuild every so often. I just want to have a bad ass retro build that breaks 70. This might even have 75 in it. In hindsight, I would have just gone with an Athena Hyper Race from the start, but I already port matched the cases for the s6 cylinder and this MXS has the same ports whereas the Athena does not.  |
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Timmer
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 128
Location: Mechelen, Belgium
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Post by Timmer on Feb 12, 2024 15:19:59 GMT -5
I have no experience with MXS, we were running polini Evo ,Malossi MHR, Hebo Manston and probably something else back in the day. I had a quick search, and found this; youtu.be/qqbuFnX4pO4I'm optimistic about it o.O Edit; There is also a BW's 100cc, and there is a Malossi 125cc kit for that one. I have never seen an engineblock of those up close (they were rare back in the days, now maybe even more so), but from memory, those are mina vertical AC's blocks  |
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Post by billwill on Feb 12, 2024 16:09:30 GMT -5
If you think those aerox wheels are heavy. You should feel the weight of a BWS wheel. HA, point taken... I didn't even have these on mine to begin with because I think they were on the earlier years? Kicking myself for selling my stock wheels, I would have liked to try them with this build. |
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Post by billwill on Feb 12, 2024 16:13:38 GMT -5
I have no experience with MXS, we were running polini Evo ,Malossi MHR, Hebo Manston and probably something else back in the day. I had a quick search, and found this; youtu.be/qqbuFnX4pO4I'm optimistic about it o.O Edit; There is also a BW's 100cc, and there is a Malossi 125cc kit for that one. I have never seen an engineblock of those up close (they were rare back in the days, now maybe even more so), but from memory, those are mina vertical AC's blocks I was watching that :-D That thing is a ripper for sure. I'm going to try to use my 24mm carb but it may want more. Hoping my 137 main jet is enough but I may need to go up. I know PIG built one of these up a while back and he was rocking a larger carb too but I'm going to see how this works. I'm going to go a step colder on the plug and run an NGK 9 instead of an 8 that was getting hot with the cylinder I am taking off. A lot of that was probably due to the timing key which I don't think I'll run - going to see how the temps are. Inner rotor ignition is something I'm missing too. Would like to snag a PVL but I'm not too hot on spending all that money yet. |
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Post by billwill on Feb 12, 2024 20:26:58 GMT -5
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Post by Kagouras on Feb 13, 2024 6:09:48 GMT -5
nice bike!!
if you go with the mxs cyl,soon or later you ll go with the mxs exhaust too
its needed if you want to get the most out of the cyl-imagine c16 is like the minimum you can go with
i dont say the italian exh you have is bad-(truth is it looks like a piece of art) but mxs exh is designed to go with that cyl and is the better option
im also looking to go horizontal lc on my prebug
in my opinion there is no point going from vert ac to hor ac
yes ac has better design,but the big difference is the lc
the fan on the ac suck 1-2 hp from the crankshaft
your build will be xtremely more reliable and at least 1-2 hp more than vert ac with exactly same setup
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Post by billwill on Feb 13, 2024 13:37:47 GMT -5
nice bike!! if you go with the mxs cyl,soon or later you ll go with the mxs exhaust too its needed if you want to get the most out of the cyl-imagine c16 is like the minimum you can go with i dont say the italian exh you have is bad-(truth is it looks like a piece of art) but mxs exh is designed to go with that cyl and is the better option im also looking to go horizontal lc on my prebug in my opinion there is no point going from vert ac to hor ac yes ac has better design,but the big difference is the lc the fan on the ac suck 1-2 hp from the crankshaft your build will be xtremely more reliable and at least 1-2 hp more than vert ac with exactly same setup Appreciate the feedback! I definitely want to run the scootertube pipe for a bit because they do design it for the MXS and Athena hyper jugs but I hear you on LC conversion. Is your plan to run a mechanical or electrical water pump? Which cylinder would you run? Funny, in my sad moment of being at my wits end the other night, I ordered a full bug eye engine off eBay for like $135 shipped. So I’ll have that on hand to tinker with LOL. |
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Post by Kagouras on Feb 14, 2024 3:51:04 GMT -5
there are plenty of cylinders for lc minarelli personally i would stay at the sport category,bcs i live in the center of a big city,i dont want it to look 'tuned' and track attention i just want reliability and some torque for wheelies -so its just personal preference and budget if u want crazy power you can mill the cranckcase and buy the 2fast 100cc with 47 mm shaft i also like due plus-very strong for cast iron keep in mind that you can convert horiz ac to horiz lc(bugeye to aerox) easily www.scooter-attack.com/en/product/cylinder-conversion-kit-top-performances-due-plus-70cc-cast-iron-yamaha-aerox-neo-s-21226?vctype_id=13for a high end build i would go with electric pump-but for a common build i think mechanical will do ok |
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Post by aeroxbud on Feb 14, 2024 4:43:46 GMT -5
That kit won't work on the prebug. It has the vertical Minarelli engine, which has a different cylinder stud spacing to the horizontal engine.
I'm with you on the living in a city race build. When I moved to the city the stage 6 racing was not very good or discreet.
A sports cylinder with lots of low down power makes more sense.
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Post by billwill on Feb 14, 2024 7:25:59 GMT -5
there are plenty of cylinders for lc minarelli personally i would stay at the sport category,bcs i live in the center of a big city,i dont want it to look 'tuned' and track attention i just want reliability and some torque for wheelies -so its just personal preference and budget if u want crazy power you can mill the cranckcase and buy the 2fast 100cc with 47 mm shaft i also like due plus-very strong for cast iron keep in mind that you can convert horiz ac to horiz lc(bugeye to aerox) easily www.scooter-attack.com/en/product/cylinder-conversion-kit-top-performances-due-plus-70cc-cast-iron-yamaha-aerox-neo-s-21226?vctype_id=13for a high end build i would go with electric pump-but for a common build i think mechanical will do ok Yeah if I do that with this bike it would probably be something more radical. Would love to have a 2Fast kit but they are $$$. I might try to do something less common like Ottopuntouno or LMR just to be different. That kit won't work on the prebug. It has the vertical Minarelli engine, which has a different cylinder stud spacing to the horizontal engine. I'm with you on the living in a city race build. When I moved to the city the stage 6 racing was not very good or discreet. A sports cylinder with lots of low down power makes more sense. Noted, but yeah we were talking about switching to a horizontal setup. I know easyboost sells conversion kits but I saw some other member here struggling to get it to fit, although I think that was with an AC kit and not LC because of the fan shroud coming into contact with the frame. |
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Post by billwill on Feb 14, 2024 18:42:15 GMT -5
While the bike is down and I’m moving to a massive front disc, gonna be trying to lower the front a bit. These Aerox forks make it sit high like a monster truck lol. There’s a lip on the inside of the triple tree that prevents the stanchions from riding up within them but I’ve been thinking of removing it so that I can lower it. ryan_ott did I see you post somewhere on here about doing this?    |
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