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Post by seacoastzuma on Aug 29, 2023 14:10:35 GMT -5
Hey all,
I have a street built 2004 Zuma with a 70cc Malossi Cast sport kit, Slient pro pipe, Dellorto 17.5 PHBN, Modified airbox, polini 3 shoe clutch, 4.5g rollers and 14/43 gears. I've been having issues with bogging once the scooter is warm, and initially thought it was all carb tuning, but I noticed that even with the 7000rpm clutch springs sometimes I barley had to breath on the throttle to feel the clutch engage and start to pull. It also felt like the bike would rev low between 8-38ish miles an hour while the transmission was still within the range of the vario. I then changed my belt from an athena with maybe 800 miles on it to an unknown milage belt that looks pretty fresh still, and the problem got a little better, but now has gotten worse with a couple hundred more miles. I've done a bunch of poking and people seem to think the pre 05 torque drivers are crap, and figured that was part of it. I'm also wondering if my stock contra spring is too soft, or gets softer from the heat of doing 6-7 miles of 50-52mph. Are these suspicions valid? If so whats the best option for solving the transmission issue? I've considered a multivar (or equivalent), along with an aftermarket (maybe malossi) torque driver (just the moving bit), but thats still almost 3/4 the cost of an overrange kit. What would be the most appropriate and cost effective way to solve this dilemma?
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Post by Zino on Aug 30, 2023 19:25:42 GMT -5
you are running really light weights for that pipe and cylinder combo on 4 different scoots including my last zuma
I typically ran 6 to 6.5 grams to get the right shift points with a stock or soft contra
I set the weights so that when I hit the throttle wide open it jumps to 7500-8000 rpms holds and then rises.
I also ran stock clutch springs or one notch up anywhere close to 5000 rpms gave me a snappy take off.
The pre 05 torque driver does have a weird shift to it you can tune the cvt around it .
If you had a higher power build with a narrower power band you would need to swap it .
For what symptoms you have I would replace the contra spring with a aftermarket soft one yours is probably just worn and not strong enough to downshift causing you to bog
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Post by seacoastzuma on Sept 1, 2023 8:58:00 GMT -5
Thank you for the advice. I'll try cleaning my TD and changing the spring first. I know the tuning is almost there because when the CVT works right the bike pulls great, and when it doesn't I can feel when the bike gets back in the power when the speed gets high enough to bring the RPM back up. The soft springs that are in stock right now are the Malossi and the Polini. Does the EVO slider help with anything or is saving some money on the Malossi fine?
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Post by Zino on Sept 1, 2023 14:14:21 GMT -5
I have used both polini and malossi they both work well
Based on price I would buy the malossi .
The malossi white spring is stiffer than a fresh stock spring so you will find to get the same shift points as now you will be running heavier weights .
Heavier weights are needed to over come stiffer contra springs .
For contra springs I run the lightest spring that keeps my belt from slipping and then set the variator weights that give me the best on off throttle responsiveness and best top speed and then I set the clutch springs so that when I hit the throttle I come off the line with power ,If I roll slow for 30 feet and then pick up speed I go to stiffer clutch springs .
When you balance it right it will feel dirt bike revvy on and off throttle and take off with power and you will feel it down shift when you are running wide open and you shut the throttle.
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Post by Zino on Sept 1, 2023 14:20:29 GMT -5
I have 4 scoots in the garage right now
2 with with dual angle torque drivers like you and 2 with straight .
They all have malossi and street pipe set ups .
2 have ncy variators 2 have malossi variators
They all have snappy take off
The cvt set ups for all of them are similar medium clutch springs ,soft contra and 6 to 6 1/2 gram weights .
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Post by seacoastzuma on Sept 1, 2023 21:10:45 GMT -5
Wow, thanks so much for all the info, it's my first rig and I'm still fumbling in the dark for the small stuff to really make everything mint. I'm not exactly sure what happened, maybe something was gunky or bound up, but the transmission is shifting right almost 70-75% of the time. Maybe it's the cooler temps? Regardless, thanks for the tips.
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Post by billwill on Sept 1, 2023 21:29:32 GMT -5
When you balance it right it will feel dirt bike revvy on and off throttle and take off with power and you will feel it down shift when you are running wide open and you shut the throttle. This should be pinned. So eloquently put! |
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Post by Zino on Sept 2, 2023 14:04:19 GMT -5
The torque driver might need to be regreased so it opens and closes smoothly .
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pili
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 279
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Post by pili on Sept 4, 2023 8:05:38 GMT -5
When I put over range gears on my bugeye it developed a weird bog at about 30 mph under load. Regreasing the torque driver and changing the contra spring to 1500 rpm spring took care of it. Zino was spot on; dirt bike revvy is what you want. Also how heavily is the air box modified? I experimented with that and ended up going back to stock with snorkel removed. With your kit and pipe that should work great.
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Post by seacoastzuma on Sept 5, 2023 7:27:39 GMT -5
I've removed about half the total area of the airbox cover, but haven't done anything else.
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Post by Zino on Sept 5, 2023 7:39:27 GMT -5
I've removed about half the total area of the airbox cover, but haven't done anything else. This might be alot of your bog right here . The zuma airbox works real well as is these scoots need the back pressure of the stock air box to run well at all throttle positions cvt tuning and carb tuning problems often give similar feedback to avoid frustration the first law of scootertuning change one thing at a time this way you can retrace your steps and not chase multiple demons change the spring ,regrease the torque driver and see if that improves your situation |
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Post by seacoastzuma on Sept 5, 2023 10:58:16 GMT -5
I think the spring will be a good first step, a stiffer one will help with belt slip right? Sometimes from a dig, the scoot feels like it has something slipping in the transmission, but the clutch is new and shouldn't be the weak point, so I assume there's some belt slip in there. I think this is going to come down to jetting, maybe using tape to vary the amount of flow through the airbox, and cleaning/greasing the TD with a new spring. Never knew that you wanted airbox restriction, do you lose much on the top end with a closed airbox?
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Post by Zino on Sept 5, 2023 16:55:12 GMT -5
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