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Post by aussysledge on May 20, 2024 22:46:54 GMT -5
My scoot has been sitting a while taken apart to track down issues, paint fairings, and put a Naraku Big bore kit on, I found the CDI wiring was burnt to the exhaust because the CDI rubber mount came loose from its frame mount. And then I also noticed that my starter power wire was rubbed bare against the starter and grounding and sparking on the starter.. also, my ignition switch was working, but hard to turn because a while back someone tried to start it with a screwdriver. Long story short I put a fatter starter wire from starter to solenoid and I rewired in a new CDI harness, and then I put in a new ignition switch from Amazon. Went forward with the Naraku bore kit after putting the old ignition key switch in the bin and not saving it.. long story short I don't get any instrument lights when turning the key forward, and my brake light doesn't work, only 12v I seem to get is from the harness to my starter solenoid, but I'm not sure if its getting ground to open up the solenoid cause it wont crank over. Most suspect piece to me is probably the ignition key switch, I checked main fuse. I'm also going to check the ground that's next to the regulator rectifier on the steering stem and scrape some paint off. Because I added a ground from the engine to the frame making sure to remove paint for a clean ground at someone's suggestion on a Facebook group and nothing, I'm at my wits end and I want my scoot to work again  sorry for the large paragraph and poor structure of things. Help would be much appreciated! Thank you |
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Post by aussysledge on May 20, 2024 23:53:42 GMT -5
A small update too, I bypassed my ignition key switch by jumping the red and black wire together from the harness. And still nothing. With the key switch connected and switched it puts power to the empty pin (I have a 5 wire aftermarket ignition switch) but with it jumped like I had it still should have worked..
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Post by GrumpyUnk on May 21, 2024 10:54:14 GMT -5
A generic switch may not match the original. You can test the make/break connections for all wires... see which are connected in OFF and ON and PARK positions. Some may not have PARK, turning the key CCW which would turn on the rear tail light to provide a light when parked...
Any way, the switches I know have 2 pairs. One for the power, B+, battery 12V, and the system load, and the second pair being ground and CDI. When in OFF the CDI gets grounded to kill the ignition(no spark) When switched to ON, the other pair connects, provding the 12V for instrument, brake/tail lights, and front marker & turn signal. The headlight is on a separate circuit from the Reg/Rec.(either yellow or white, I think).
I believe your generic is not connecting what needs and disconnecting that which should be connected/disconnected.
Repeat: ON== open CDI ground and connect battery to cluster/lighting
OFF== disconnect power to lights/gauges connect CDI to ground.
simple, no?
and only 4 wires total.
Some have a jumper in the mix to allow quickly connecting aftermarket anti-theft and remote start devices. Remove the jumper, connect ignition switch and bike wire loom to the remote gizmo. Again, simple.
tom
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Post by aussysledge on May 21, 2024 16:27:48 GMT -5
A generic switch may not match the original. You can test the make/break connections for all wires... see which are connected in OFF and ON and PARK positions. Some may not have PARK, turning the key CCW which would turn on the rear tail light to provide a light when parked... Any way, the switches I know have 2 pairs. One for the power, B+, battery 12V, and the system load, and the second pair being ground and CDI. When in OFF the CDI gets grounded to kill the ignition(no spark) When switched to ON, the other pair connects, provding the 12V for instrument, brake/tail lights, and front marker & turn signal. The headlight is on a separate circuit from the Reg/Rec.(either yellow or white, I think). I believe your generic is not connecting what needs and disconnecting that which should be connected/disconnected. Repeat: ON== open CDI ground and connect battery to cluster/lighting OFF== disconnect power to lights/gauges connect CDI to ground. simple, no? and only 4 wires total. Some have a jumper in the mix to allow quickly connecting aftermarket anti-theft and remote start devices. Remove the jumper, connect ignition switch and bike wire loom to the remote gizmo. Again, simple. tom Well in a video I watched, red and black on one side is connected together when you turn the key forward, when probing the black wire with my test light with the other end hooked to ground, it doesn't light up my test light, and the other two, green and white are the ground from the CDI to kill the engine. So I tried to jumper the red to black to simulate the key being turned forward and my scoot does nothing, unless the ignition switch is still supposed to be connected while I jumper it for some reason. I'm really now sure what else wouldn't allow for dash illumination on my bike when the key is forward. I've looked at other ignition switches that claim to be for my tao tao atm50 and they look about the same. Thanks for your reply! |
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pili
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 279
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Post by pili on May 21, 2024 21:06:04 GMT -5
Not sure this is helpful but on my Zuma for instance, the only thing that comes on with the key on is the taillight. The backlight on the instrument cluster and the fuel gage power up through the voltage regulator from the stator once it’s running. With all the wiring issues could your regulator and taillight bulb be bad? Still doesn’t answer why it won’t crank though. Have you tried 12v directly to the starter to make sure it turns?
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Post by aussysledge on May 21, 2024 21:22:57 GMT -5
Not sure this is helpful but on my Zuma for instance, the only thing that comes on with the key on is the taillight. The backlight on the instrument cluster and the fuel gage power up through the voltage regulator from the stator once it’s running. With all the wiring issues could your regulator and taillight bulb be bad? Still doesn’t answer why it won’t crank though. Have you tried 12v directly to the starter to make sure it turns? yes, starter does turn when I jump the solenoid with a screwdriver. And I was wondering if it was when it was on or not, from my memory when I used it 3 years ago I thought it did but not sure. Been a while since I used it since it's been down a while from those two simple issues but I thought I would upgrade stuff while I was in there.. |
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Post by FrankenMech on May 22, 2024 8:53:39 GMT -5
You screwed the pooch by making 'upgrades' to a non runner. Get the scoot running first by carefully tracing a wiring diagram. THEN make your upgrades.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on May 22, 2024 13:53:50 GMT -5
If I remember, the 'switched' 12v at the ignition switch is protected by the fuse(the only one) in the feed from the + battery terminal(smaller wire). If the fuse is turned to smoke, or the small wire terminal is not connect, none of the switched 'things' will work.
Get a PDF of the schematic. About any one will do, no matter the brand. They are pretty much all the same(NO guarantee from me, you must look and probe with a VOM), and if different should be similar enough to make it easier to figure out.
Try fixing the switched 12v first... The starter relay operate V may be running through a kickstand cutout switch so the starter will not work with the kickstand down. Easy to miss.
The relay power does use the brake light switch, the starter button switch, and maybe the kickstand switch to send power to operate the relay. Check that the other small terminal is grounded, or that the starter button switch is grounded, memory fails...
tom
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Post by aussysledge on May 22, 2024 14:38:07 GMT -5
You screwed the pooch by making 'upgrades' to a non runner. Get the scoot running first by carefully tracing a wiring diagram. THEN make your upgrades. True, fix things one at a time to confirm that was it.. then continue with upgrades, one at a time.. I don't mind being a cautionary tale so long as I can figure this out and get riding again, and tune my carb and variator |
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Post by aussysledge on May 22, 2024 14:40:45 GMT -5
If I remember, the 'switched' 12v at the ignition switch is protected by the fuse(the only one) in the feed from the + battery terminal(smaller wire). If the fuse is turned to smoke, or the small wire terminal is not connect, none of the switched 'things' will work. Get a PDF of the schematic. About any one will do, no matter the brand. They are pretty much all the same(NO guarantee from me, you must look and probe with a VOM), and if different should be similar enough to make it easier to figure out. Try fixing the switched 12v first... The starter relay operate V may be running through a kickstand cutout switch so the starter will not work with the kickstand down. Easy to miss. The relay power does use the brake light switch, the starter button switch, and maybe the kickstand switch to send power to operate the relay. Check that the other small terminal is grounded, or that the starter button switch is grounded, memory fails... tom Be honest with you I'm pretty terrible at reading schematics, I might see if a buddy can help me understand it better. But he's saying the same thing as the previous commenter that I shouldn't do so many upgrades at once lol he's probably just going to flame me. Anyway I've checked the fuse and connected the two terminals where the fuse goes together shortly to see if anything happens but still, nothing happens |
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Post by aussysledge on May 23, 2024 0:17:12 GMT -5
Any more help on this thread on which things to check voltage or ground on would be greatly appreciated. I know how rash I was to get upgrades on a nonrunner. But they were top end upgrades which should've had nothing to do with electrical..
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Post by FrankenMech on May 23, 2024 8:48:01 GMT -5
Learn to read schematics...
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Post by aussysledge on May 23, 2024 18:19:27 GMT -5
Learn to read schematics... Everyone's at different levels on knowledge here. I have trouble with wire schematics cause sometimes they don't show physically on the scooter where they lead to, just what it leads to and some only have colors that aren't consistent with the wiring on my scooter, nor tell if that wire is pos or neg and if I should be pressing a button when putting my vom on it. For a 'scoot master' you aren't being very helpful and you're kinda down putting. As someone who I assume would know a thing or two you could simply say, check for volts here while pressing this, if no volts replace this or check here instead. You have contributed nothing to this thread and haven't helped another scoot enthusiast to get rubber back on the road in any way. We don't all immediately start as experts in doing this stuff. |
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Post by FrankenMech on May 24, 2024 4:15:41 GMT -5
Accept a personal challenge to learn something new and learn to read schematics. That is the only way you can determine where wires are supposed to go. The colors are seldom consistent which is why a person can't just depend on the colors all the time. I personally could wire a scoot in my sleep but I have learned that others can't or wont follow the type of instructions you want me to give you so I don't try anymore. I do have trouble typing out long posts after having three strokes. Grumpy (Tom) on the other hand likes to type. -But my advice stands: LEARN TO READ SCHEMATICS!
I will not bother to try helping you in any way again.
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Post by snaker on May 24, 2024 10:12:03 GMT -5
Good news is your in luck, goto manuals on the menu at left of page
At top: generic Chinese engine manuals
Go to 2nd line 139qmb service manual
Page p94 (manual pages) Lighting coil
Shows a single phase, half wave lighting coil
Low output= headlight (+?), auto choke
Hight output= charge circuit
p101= 104: looks like they got the trigger pickup and stator (magneto) backwards
p106= shows a DC type ignition
needs a "automotive" type key switch ................ closes in ON
a typical 50cc type AC key switch won't work ...... closes in OFF
needs batt hot on both ON and Start positions
p112= Start circuit
notice fuse; don't simply look at it, use a meter and make sure that the fuse end caps are tight if glass cartridge fuse
Brake interlock switches are in the hot side of solenoid control circuit
Some sort of switch is in the ground side, maybe side stand switch?
Match new switch positions to old switch and check with a meter
Also understand that this info is sometimes accurate and sometimes not, that's part of the fun.
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sorry for the large paragraph and poor structure of things. Help would be much appreciated! Thank you
