2022 Ice Bear 50cc Maddog Gen 1 - Starting Issues

[jayb]

Hello,

I just bought a 2022 icebear 50cc maddog gen 1 scooter, brand new shipped directly to me. I bought it through a dealer.

Right away it took forever to start, even after taking off the flow bolt and putting gas directly in the line to the carb.

I've only put 16 miles on this and now it wont start. It got tipped on its side while I was working on it and after that it's not starting. I drained the gas from the carb, removed the sparkplug and manually kick started it a few times to clear any gas.

I put zip ties on all of the fuel lines and other lines just in case of a vacuum leak. I tested the sparkplug for spark and it has that. I put my finger over the sparkplug hole to see if it would push my finger off and it did that (compression test) There is fuel going to the carburetor.

I noticed I had to charge my battery again though. I charged it overnight on a trickle charger and put it in last night. The bike started right up. I had it idle for 20 minutes and I went to move it and it died and wouldn't start.

Tonight I changed the spark plug. I removed the fuel line to the fuel filter and even though there was gas in the filter it wouldn't come out on the end to the carburetor without shaking it. When I took the end off to the fuel pump the gas emptied out of the filter. I blew in one end and it was hard to get air to go through so I replaced it with a new one. Still would not start.

I have the battery on the trickle charger again and it has been on there for 2 hours and still charging.

Any thoughts on what the issue is? Bad battery maybe?

[FrankenMech]

Rather than chasing your tail find a service manual and follow the troubleshooting chart exactly, -do not skip any steps.

It does sound like you may have water in your fuel. Drain the tank, flush it out with a little fresh 100% gasoline, no ethanol, refill with 100% gasoline, and replace the filter again. I like to use the plastic mesh fuel filters available for small engines, they can be cleaned, re-used, and don't absorb water like paper fuel filters do. They also do not corrode like the sintered brass units do.

[GrumpyUnk]

I think the ice bear style have the tank underfoot, and a pump to deliver fuel to the carburetor. If on its side, fuel could flow behind the pump diaphragm(via the carb inlet.. and various paths involved). If it has fuel behind the diaphragm, it may not function properly. The pump works on vacuum pulses, which move the diaphragm back and forth, while the other side of the diaprhagm pulls in fuel and pushes it out to the float bowl inlet valve. I would test that the pump is functional by applying and removing suction on the rubber line that is normally connected to the intake elbow.
The long crank time can be related to the pump function and an empty float bowl. The pump must be pulsed a buncha times to get fuel from the tank to the float bowl. Prefilling, as I think you mentioned was done, helps, and should eliminate the long crank time. You can check for float bowl having something by loosening the screw on the float bowl that is a drain. It can be used to drain the bowl for storage. Some have a tube that leads to ground(dirt). Use that tube to direct any fuel into a glass/plastic container that is clear enough to see the fuel. Let it sit for 5 minutes and look for 'pearls' of water. Water in the fuel(excessive) will agglomerate into little balls which look somewhat like baby pearls... If you have them, you have water in the fuel tank.
One other test, if you have a plastic water/soda container, is to drill a hole in the lid, pull fuel line through, and add a cup or so of fuel. Connect the other end of the fuel line to the carb fuel inlet. See if it starts bettah.. Oh, hold the plastic so the fuel will come out the fuel line before .. You will not need to vent it for a short test. Once done, if the fuel in the container is uncomtaminated, you can put it in the fuel tank.
tom

[jayb]

Thank you both for your comments. I called the dealership and told them what was happening. They told me to remove the screw or hose from the drain line and then use an air compressor to blow air through the line for 5 seconds. Then another 5 seconds by using the throttle. They mentioned something gets stuck on these new bikes from China and that normal fixes them.

Well I did that and it still won't start. I checked for spark again amd now I lost it. I checked the plug wire and that was tight on the other end. They are going to send me a new CDI box.

I'll check the fuel in the meantime as I still think it's not going to the carburetor. I had spark prior and it still didn't work. I might order a different fuel pump while I wait on the box.

[FrankenMech]

One thing I did find with my scoot and it's vacuum powered fuel pump is that any restriction, kink, fitting, etc in the vacuum 'power' line to the pump makes it fail to pump properly.

Check for water in the fuel, it only takes a few drops to screw up a paper filter and plug it like you describe. Get a plastic mesh fuel filter also.

[jayb]

I checked the fuel for water by putting it in a clear plastic bottle as Tom mentioned and saw no separation or bubble's. So there is no water in the fuel.

I took things apart to check the fuel pump but wasn't able to take the 4 screws off. It's a star type screw head with a metal riser in the middle. I blew in it to simulate gas being pushed in and gas came out the other tube just fine. So I put it all back together.

Checked for spark again and found out it is not consistent. Sometimes sparks sometimes doesn't. I don't know how long it will take for the CDI box from the dealer to get here so I ordered one off Amazon that will be here tomorrow night.

Keeping my fingers crossed that replacing the cdi box will fix my problem. If not, then it's going back to the dealer to fix it.

I appreciate the comments to help trouble shoot this. I wish it had an in depth manual but there isn't one for this. The Chinese manual is garbage.

[GrumpyUnk]

On site is a section describing tests and steps to fix a "will not start" condition. There are also available 139QMB China engine and CVT manuals that have specs for clearances and fastener torque.
You can check the cause of a no-start using 'starting fluid'(ether) sold in spray cans at auto parts stores and WallyWorld. Spray a blast into the air intake, and attempt to start. If the engine was not starting due to lack of fuel or carburetion problems, the starting fluid will take the place of that and the engine likely would start and run for a few seconds. That helps narrow down the cause. As far as the CDI, most times the work or the do not, with few acting intermittently. Intermittent mostly are caused by loose connections, or bad solder joints on the circuit boards. The internals are pretty reliable and will be either good or bad, nothing in between. The ignition switch supplies nothing to the CDI, and could be disconnected to be sure it is not killing the CDI output. The switch grounds the CDI to kill spark generation in the OFF position.
FWIW, the switches on the handlebar will corrode if left out in the elements. They can be disassembled and cleaned of corrosion, but it is more reliable(maybe) to get replacements if they are problematic.
tom

[FrankenMech]

Jun 4, 2024 20:22:22 GMT -5 jayb said:

I removed the fuel line to the fuel filter and even though there was gas in the filter it wouldn't come out on the end to the carburetor without shaking it. When I took the end off to the fuel pump the gas emptied out of the filter. I blew in one end and it was hard to get air to go through so I replaced it with a new one. Still would not start.

This is a prime symptom of water in the fuel soaking into the fuel filter element. Water in the fuel is a very common problem especially with ethanol containing fuels. Ethanol also causes other problems for many China made fuel system components.

Those fuel pump screws are likely called 'security torx'. If the star shaped section has 6 points you can find drivers at some tool stores, Harbor Freight, and maybe even Amazon. I have run into 5-point torx-types before and so far I have not found drivers for them. I have not looked in the last year or so.

[jayb]

FIXED!!!

I replaced the CDI box tonight and the bike started right up. Took it out for a ride and works like a champ now.

I also did the first oil change on it so that's good to go. I'll do another one at 100 miles as well.

Every time I started it the bike fired right up on the push of the button. No more 5 or 6 tries before it starts. That's how it should have gone when I got it. So the mix of things I did definitely made it better.

Thanks again for your guys comments. I appreciate it.