water buildup - watch those wire harness "protectors"

[classacted]

hello,

this post is meant to be more for informational purposes than a question, but a question can easily be attached to it. what kind of treatment works to stop water intrusion?

my second chinese scooter, a wolf islander, has suffered the same fate as my first, a tao tao quantum. they have a rubber bellows that covers over the main wire harness and that bellows was full of water. I'm there trying to hunt down the reason why it's running so crappy and decided to swap out a carb and was going to unplug the enricher when I discovered all of the water in the bellows. I admit, I don't always cover the vehicle up and I also ride in the rain quite often. one day coming home from work, it suddenly started running crappy and fortunately, it still got me home. the most ironic thing about it is, it didn't rain at all that day, and why it suddenly decided to act up is baffling. anyway, put 'check water in wiring harness' on your list of possible causes of failure if it's not already there.

[snaker]

Trouble with a lot of the water "resistant" designs is that if water actually does get into something, the seals prevent it from drying out or draining.
Often times water will sit in a place for a while before it starts causing problems
Do a search on motorcycle enduro racing and pick up some good tips on proper waterproofing.

[GrumpyUnk]

A suggestion would be to use zip ties to hold the 'bellows' with the open end facing earthword.
They are not exactly water proof, but are designed to keep the connectors free of being drenched with liquid. If upside down, they can insure the connectors being bathed... Flip them to allow water to drain, any that should leak past the 'seal' where the boot is installed to one half of the circuit.
tom

[classacted]

it's funny how it happened. I rode the scooter to work in the morning and it ran great. there was no rain at all that day and on the way home it acted up. maybe the bellows and the harness/connectors moved from turning, bumps, and hills. the weight from the water that was in there may have also played some part. that's all I can think at the moment.
I don't mind if a little water gets in there, so long as it can drain out and not short out things. I'll keep checking on it regularly now that I know there's a possible problem. it was definitely the problem though. the scooter runs great again.

[GrumpyUnk]

If these are what I think they are - a pouch that is connected tightly at one end around the wires, the other end open to allow insertion of the mating connector - I think they should be positioned with the open end down. I also think if there is a water problem, using a zip tie to tighten the open end around the bundle of wires might slow down water intrusion.
You could have had water get in a while ago, and it only started to seep through minor gaps and cause problems. Dumping the sitting water likely allowed it to dry out to a degree, and begin to function again.
It seems that there is no rhyme or reason sometimes to how the pouches/protectors are positioned and some end up as little buckets to hold water. Not gonna try to figure out the logic, if any, used to set their installation.
tom

[FrankenMech]

That is why I also dip the bare wire in silicone dielectric and fill the connector with silicone before I crimp it with GOOD crimpers. The factory does not do that leaving every connection in a poor state requiring mechanical 'protection' from water intrusion. The mechanical protection does not work. My method is messy but it seems to work. I end up removing the factory connectors and making my own wiring harness but it is necessary. A scoot does not have that many wires and connections. The factory wires are like the old VW beetle wires with dirty brittle copper that break and corrode. Copper wires must be nearly pure and surprise surprise most China wire is not, especially cheap crap used in scoots... The same metallurgical problem is evident in connectors also but it is nearly impossible to find American made connectors even the name brands have been using China made connectors... Those that forget history are bound to repeat it.

[classacted]

GrumpyUnk and FrankenMech,
the unsteady way that it ran was very similar to a car that has a misfire. it kept 'coughing' for lack of a better word. the engine wasn't going to die, but you sure couldn't ride it worth a darn. it just didn't have any guts and barely made it up the hill. it makes me think back in hindsight that while it was running like this, I could have hooked up an oscilloscope and backprobe, for example, the hot wire that goes to the coil or the wire coming from the flywheel bump pickup to examine if I could actually see the 'cough' on the oscilloscope in real time. the next time I have that thing apart, I'm going to hook that scope up just for the heck of it, even if it's running perfect. the worst that can happen is that it's a total waste of time. the best that can happen is that it could provide a shortcut to finding the part that is failing, or even one wire that's not making good enough contact, since you are checking just one wire, and a very important wire at that.

[GrumpyUnk]

I expect you will find a wire from the stator to the CDI, or the CDI to the coil that is getting drenched or dipped in water, causing an intermittent misfire. Could be the coil wire also, or the plug wire.
The system runs without external power, and uses a ground in the ignition switch to ground the CDI output and thus spark when in LOCK position. If you disconnect the ignition switch, the engine should start and run. I think you will not have 12V battery to the cluster or brake/tail lights if disconnected.
I think the most susceptible wiring would be the CDI wires and associated bits, such as the AC field/coil that powers the CDI, and the pickup that signals the CDI to fire and operate the coil. Not a lot of wires... but necessary for ignition to function.
I have not taken the time to do all the rewiring that might be needed, and likely will not as I do not ride much any more, and when I do, not far from home.
Have fun today.
tom

[classacted]

@GrumpyUnk said:

when in LOCK position. If you disconnect the ignition switch, the engine should start and run.

thanks GrumpyUnk, I'll try to remember that. I haven't had the front piece apart yet, but I've had the back apart about seven times now. be good.
Ed