HELP PLEASE

[deano]

I am having issues with my son's Lexmoto Echo 50cc 2020. The bike was blowing headlights and not charging, so the stator was swapped out, but this hasn't sorted the issue. It's an 8-pole stator with three wires coming out of it: blue and yellow, pink, and yellow. If I test to ground on the blue and yellow wire, I get VAC. If I test to ground on the pink wire, I get nothing, and if I test to ground on the yellow wire, I get nothing. However, if I test between the yellow and pink wires, I get roughly 35 VAC at idle. Does that seem right?

[snaker]

Not much to go on
I'm guessing that yellow and pink are each end of a full wave lighting coil.
Full wave lighting coils don't have a connection to ground at the stator, only at the RR
If so, that voltage should be good.

8 pole: as in how?
Does it have an oddball wrapped pole that is different than the rest?
As in: 7 + 1 to make up the 8 poles?
If all 8 look the same, then its likely that they are all part of the lighting coil and it doesn't have a separate AC
ignition power coil.
If it has the odd ball pole/poles, it is referred to as a "AC" style stator
If it doesn't have any odd ball pole/poles, it is referred to as a DC" style stator (even though its generating AC)
If it has a wrapped pole, then it should be the AC ignition power coil and one or two of the wires would be for that.
Are any of the wires you mentioned going to the pulse trigger?

You can tell a lot by studying the stator and following the wire landings

Burning out lights is a pretty good indicator that the RR isn't working

The stator and RR always have to be compatable.

Photo's could help

[GrumpyUnk]

Have you taken a look at:

www.lexmoto.com/download/file/50cc_Wiregram_AC.pdf

If this is not correct, don't blame me. Results of a search for:

"Lexmoto Echo 50cc 202 wiring diagram or schematic"
on duckduckgo.
I have not spent a lot of time looking at the stator/RR/etc circuitry.

tom

[deano]

Nov 7, 2024 10:12:20 GMT -5 snaker said:

Not much to go on
I'm guessing that yellow and pink are each end of a full wave lighting coil.
Full wave lighting coils don't have a connection to ground at the stator, only at the RR
If so, that voltage should be good.

8 pole: as in how?
Does it have an oddball wrapped pole that is different than the rest?
As in: 7 + 1 to make up the 8 poles?
If all 8 look the same, then its likely that they are all part of the lighting coil and it doesn't have a separate AC
ignition power coil.
If it has the odd ball pole/poles, it is referred to as a "AC" style stator
If it doesn't have any odd ball pole/poles, it is referred to as a DC" style stator (even though its generating AC)
If it has a wrapped pole, then it should be the AC ignition power coil and one or two of the wires would be for that.
Are any of the wires you mentioned going to the pulse trigger?

You can tell a lot by studying the stator and following the wire landings

Burning out lights is a pretty good indicator that the RR isn't working

The stator and RR always have to be compatable.

Photo's could help

Hi,

This is the stator

www.cmpoparts.com/part/STTR074

And I have bought the RR from the same company which matched them up.

I'm at a loose end with this it's been driving me nuts.

I was told that this stator should ground at the stator itself, yet I'm getting Vac across the yellow and pink. The blue/yellow goes to the pulse trigger

Thanks

[snaker]

Looks to me from that vender photo that you do indeed have a single phase, full wave lighting coil on a DC style stator.
DC style because there is no AC ignition power coil so by default it works with a DC ignition.

You can verify further by visually following the wire terminations and coil wire routing.
I'm guessing the yellow and pink wires end up at adjoining stator poles, with no ground involved in the lighting coil that would make it full wave.

A voltage measurement a good bit above 12 vdc across the yellow and pink should be good.

[deano]

Yes, I traced the yellow and pink wires, and you're right, it does appear to be a full wave based on your description. I do get around 30 VAC across the pink and yellow wires.

So, if we assume the stator is functioning properly and producing the correct voltage, what else could be the issue? I spoke to a lexmoto dealer yesterday, and they asked me to test each wire to ground, which has confused me even more.

The R/R was replaced with an original part from the supplier that matches the bike and stator, so I'm confident they are compatible.

Thanks

[snaker]

Don't know what to tell ya
If your supplier is giving iffy info on the stator, I would question their info on the RR

The typical design of these RR's incorporates a 2-diode rectifier on the half wave RR and a 4-diode rectifier on the full wave RR
The half wave works with a ground tied into the lighting coil at the stator and full wave has no ground connection at the lighting coil, ground is introduced inside the RR.
That's the main reason that stators and RR's must be compatible.

Not sure what you would see by metering the RR internals due to the other internal circuitry being involved.
If you had known/good half wave and full wave RR's on hand, you could compare meter readings?
I guess try another RR, from the same place or find another place?

There is a vender on this forum you could try for parts or advice?
He shows up at times, don't remember his name.

[aeroxbud]

Just to make it clear. Which model do you have? The stator you linked to is for the echo+ it looks like the echo, and echo plus use a different stator. They look similar, but one uses three wires. The other four.
The euro 5 model is different again.

[deano]

Hi both,

The bike I have is an Echo Plus euro 4, 2020 registration Wf70xhl. When I go to www.cmpoparts.com/, it asks for my registration. We put that in, and the stator and regulator are found, so we are confident we have the correct stator and rectifier for this bike. Looking at the stator closely, there is no earth wire. I can attach pictures if I can figure out how to??!

I did some tests today.

1.Between the yellow and pink wires, I get 28 VAC

2.nothing to ground off either of the yellow or pink wire which I believe is correct after talking with SNAKER.

3. I removed the plug that attaches the RR to the harness and tested again, and I still had 28 VAC (these are now the yellow and white wires).

4. I put the RR back into the harness and tested at the battery. There was NO increase in VDC.

5.I attached a trickle charger to the battery and tested again. The battery was showing 13.4 VDC.

6.I then tested the red wire on the harness where the RR plugs in and got 13.4 VDC, so I’m confident the red wire from the RR to the battery is fine.

7.I ran an additional lead directly from the RR red wire to the battery. Just for certain there was ni break.

8.I then ran a temporary ground from the RR to the battery, but there was no change in VDC

To summarise, VAC is getting from the stator to the RR, but no increase is being achieved at the battery even when revving, but trickle charging does increase battery VDC and that can be seen at the RR end of the red cable.

This has had 2 stators from supplier and also 2 RR just for process if elimination.

Thanks guys for your input, it's the only thing keeping me sane with this just now. Appreciate it

On a side note, does it matter where the ground for the starter motor goes?

[GrumpyUnk]

AFAIK, the stator is grounded by the mount.
The starter is also grounded by its two mounting bolts.
The engine is grounded by a cable from the rocker arm cover bolt to the
chassis of the machine.
If you question the ground, use a car style jumper cable to ground the engine to the battery '-' terminal.
I think the pink and yellow in your case share the same ground. I did not look on schematic.
The V measured at the + term on the battery should show an increase when the engine is running.
I am not sure how you measured... You might want to check your ground.
Remember... if the ground inside the 'fork' area is to be good... it cannot go through the fork bearings,
but must be a separate wire that will flex as you steer L & R. If missing or has bad strands of wire, you will
have problems, also if the wire terms are loose at either end. That would / could explain the missing V as the meter may have been at a different ground 'level'. ?
tom

[deano]

Nov 10, 2024 16:01:11 GMT -5 GrumpyUnk said:

AFAIK, the stator is grounded by the mount.
The starter is also grounded by its two mounting bolts.
The engine is grounded by a cable from the rocker arm cover bolt to the
chassis of the machine.
If you question the ground, use a car style jumper cable to ground the engine to the battery '-' terminal.
I think the pink and yellow in your case share the same ground. I did not look on schematic.
The V measured at the + term on the battery should show an increase when the engine is running.
I am not sure how you measured... You might want to check your ground.
Remember... if the ground inside the 'fork' area is to be good... it cannot go through the fork bearings,
but must be a separate wire that will flex as you steer L & R. If missing or has bad strands of wire, you will
have problems, also if the wire terms are loose at either end. That would / could explain the missing V as the meter may have been at a different ground 'level'.

Thank you for your reply, I will try that with the car style jumper cable.

Interesting comment with the ground from the RR, I do get continuity from the harness green wire at the RR to the battery.

When testing the VDC with the engine running I just tested across the battery terminals.
Thanks

[snaker]

Nov 10, 2024 16:01:11 GMT -5 GrumpyUnk said:

AFAIK, the stator is grounded by the mount.
The starter is also grounded by its two mounting bolts.
The engine is grounded by a cable from the rocker arm cover bolt to the
chassis of the machine.
If you question the ground, use a car style jumper cable to ground the engine to the battery '-' terminal.
I think the pink and yellow in your case share the same ground. I did not look on schematic.
The V measured at the + term on the battery should show an increase when the engine is running.
I am not sure how you measured... You might want to check your ground.
Remember... if the ground inside the 'fork' area is to be good... it cannot go through the fork bearings,
but must be a separate wire that will flex as you steer L & R. If missing or has bad strands of wire, you will
have problems, also if the wire terms are loose at either end. That would / could explain the missing V as the meter may have been at a different ground 'level'. ?
tom

The stator plate is grounded to chassis frame, absolutely.
You can see in the photo shown that a ground tab is surrounding one of the stator mounting holes.
 
But in this case, the lighting coil appears not to be tied to that ground at the stator.
I believe the pink and yellow wires are equal legs of a full wave setup and not separate legs of a hi output/low output lighting coil.
A close visual of the stator would quickly provide some clues.

[deano]

Nov 10, 2024 20:19:58 GMT -5 snaker said:

Nov 10, 2024 16:01:11 GMT -5 GrumpyUnk said:

AFAIK, the stator is grounded by the mount.
The starter is also grounded by its two mounting bolts.
The engine is grounded by a cable from the rocker arm cover bolt to the
chassis of the machine.
If you question the ground, use a car style jumper cable to ground the engine to the battery '-' terminal.
I think the pink and yellow in your case share the same ground. I did not look on schematic.
The V measured at the + term on the battery should show an increase when the engine is running.
I am not sure how you measured... You might want to check your ground.
Remember... if the ground inside the 'fork' area is to be good... it cannot go through the fork bearings,
but must be a separate wire that will flex as you steer L & R. If missing or has bad strands of wire, you will
have problems, also if the wire terms are loose at either end. That would / could explain the missing V as the meter may have been at a different ground 'level'. ?
tom

The stator plate is grounded to chassis frame, absolutely.
You can see in the photo shown that a ground tab is surrounding one of the stator mounting holes.
 
But in this case, the lighting coil appears not to be tied to that ground at the stator.
I believe the pink and yellow wires are equal legs of a full wave setup and not separate legs of a hi output/low output lighting coil.
A close visual of the stator would quickly provide some clues.

I'm thinking you're absolutely correct, and the testing I've done so far would back that up. I'm stumped now, as far as I can tell, I've done all the testing possible. Do you guys have any other suggestions?

So, if we assume that the stator and wiring are correct up to the RR and VAC is correct, what would the next steps be? The RR I have is direct from the same supplier for this bike.


Thanks