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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 2, 2012 21:23:43 GMT -5
I never had any luck with really high revving trans stuff either. Even with a cam, head work, big bore, etc... I either used stock or a 1000 contra with 4.5g sliders. That was to get over 9,000RPM regularly, which probably isn't so great for these engines (killed my crank in 2000 miles). I was using either stock or 1000RPM clutch springs too. Seemed like stiffer springs than that bypassed all of the grunt that the 4 strokes are good for.
My favorite part of sliders is the longevity. they really do take some abuse, and I dunno if many people have blown up more trans parts than me. lol I was busting belts every 5-30 miles on one build (2T w a good bit of HP and a modded out CVT) and the sliders held up and I still use them. Pretty impressive.
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jcoahran
Scoot Enthusiast
89 zuma ii
Posts: 347
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Post by jcoahran on Apr 2, 2012 22:14:25 GMT -5
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jcoahran
Scoot Enthusiast
89 zuma ii
Posts: 347
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Post by jcoahran on Apr 2, 2012 22:18:51 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 2, 2012 22:23:06 GMT -5
I have Boppers on 2 of my scoots. They don't make them in the sizes I have on the other. They're a nice tire for dry asphalt, work in the rain too but wouldn't be my choice if I had to deal with inclement weather or unpaved roads regularly. Much better balanced than the tires than came on any of my scoots. I too made the mistake of buying tires local for a bit. I was paying nearly double online prices for some cheap tires.
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jcoahran
Scoot Enthusiast
89 zuma ii
Posts: 347
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Post by jcoahran on Apr 2, 2012 22:29:53 GMT -5
haha! well, its spring here in indiana, 60+ everyday! but im for sure going to get some knobby tires (for when i wanna treat it like a dirtbike + for winter) i know i know, im dumb for using my scoot during the winter seasons, but hey! its my only ride! haha! hey 90GTVert, should i go with 6g or 7g sliders instead of 5.5....you know...for a little more top end?  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 2, 2012 22:44:47 GMT -5
If I were spending the kinda money you have been, I'd get at least a couple of sets. What one of us likes may not be perfect for you. While there is a science to it, there seems to be a bit of preference as well. If you were to get 5 and 7 gram you could stagger them so you'd be able to do 5, 6, or 7g. If you got all three you could do all their 1/2 weights. Or you could get 5 and 6 and do 5, 5.5, or 6g. There's a reason this stuff is called tuning and not just parts swapping. ;D
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2tfvr
Scoot Member
Posts: 30
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Post by 2tfvr on Apr 2, 2012 23:16:18 GMT -5
why not use the good old dremel and take out the necessary material in order to come up with a customized weight. only do it slowly otherwise the plastic stuff will warp or melt. i do this on my sliders. i tune first my scoots on cheap rollers and even do staggered sets. then i get a set of sliders which is about a gram or two higher than whats needed. and work my way down to the desired weight. time consuming but worth it.
i've done up to 3.8grams each on a slider but was tricky to do because material was so thin already and it was slipping and heating the whole slider.
if you over do it you can apply high heat silicon sealant into the void which to my observation adds about half to 1 gram depending on the space. it holds up. plus if it peels off it's soft enough not to damage anything (but that hasn't happen to me yet).
digital scale is a must by the way. practice also on a set of rollers to come up with a better system. i hope you guys can come up with better alterantive to add ballast to the rollers in case you need to.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2012 23:53:55 GMT -5
yeah thats a good price...doesnt say what brand but might be good. There was a stage 6 roller tuning kit in the for sale section here. You could get that and find your size then sell it to someone else. I can already tell you 5.5g is the sweet spot though for an 83cc with a 180lbs rider. But if you wanted to do your own tuning...get a 'tinytach' and like brent said 5g through 7g and use whichever combo gives you 6500rpm all the way through. (6500 is where 139qmb makes the most torque) I dont have a tach but i tried 4.5 through 6.5 and found 5.5g pulled the most all the way through. Heavier and she would change gears too fast and lug down....lighter (4.5g she would not reach top gear) 5g was okay but still revved high than what i like off the line...5.5g was perfect...for me. 1k and 5.5g is a lot less stress on the other components in the cvt. 2k springs and weights that go with them are more for drag passes than pleasure riding IMO. Heavy weights wear the variator out much faster. My stock vari lasted 1 yr and 4500 miles with 5.5g in it. Heavier weights would have worn it out much sooner. And a 2k spring would be hell on the bearings of the torque converter. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 0:04:13 GMT -5
another option like 2tfvr is to use a dremel and remove some of the metal of the weights. I have seen guys use electrical solder and fill some light ones in...then drill them out a little at a time until they were perfect (solder is soft and drills easy). All this takes time and tools....or you could just with what some of us have found to ultimately work  |
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jcoahran
Scoot Enthusiast
89 zuma ii
Posts: 347
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Post by jcoahran on Apr 3, 2012 0:23:36 GMT -5
sounds good to me! i may order 10g and 5g and go from there! thanks for all the amazing advice guys! and 1FASTQMB...i found out...that my scoot never really had a big bore at all! must be the 3.50 tires giving it that extra boost of speed, who knows! check this video out! www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVZ8snVGjIwould 5g and 10g weights be too big of a difference to toy with even if i space them out correctly? no matter. it will be super fun! thanks. |
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2tfvr
Scoot Member
Posts: 30
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Post by 2tfvr on Apr 3, 2012 1:35:54 GMT -5
i've been told not to stagger the sliders or rollers not more than 2 grams in weight difference. i do also agree that all the works/modifications done on the engine will be best harnessed if you have a good quality variator as in one of the discussions i read here (very informative by the way :thumb: ). even on a stock torque drive the variator will enhance the power more. this is more evident if you do test also different c.d.i. units which have different ignition maps.
in our side of the equator we take the total number (example 6grams x 6 weights = 36 , so at times we use the stock heavy rollers from our stash which could be 3roller weights x 12grams) of all the weights needed and just use an assortment of whatever is available just to come up with the total. at times we even use 6 different rollers just to come up with the number. this we do before we go get a set of new top mark rollers/sliders. :light: mind you we only do this just for testing/tuning. prolonged use of this setup will premature wear on the variator particularly the ramps of the rollers. :light:
an alternative system in finding the best setup would be to use the stock or 1k contra spring coupled with the lightest roller weights you have which will allow the belt to travel fully on the variator. so if it won't go up all the way to it's maximum travel then you put in heavier weights gradually until it bogs. and when you got a tach installed it'll be much easier. afterwards you can tune the torque drive by changing the springs.
and since you'll be opening the transmission cover often, see if it's possible that you install stud bolts so as not to stress the threads whenever you take the bolts out of the cover.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 2:09:14 GMT -5
sounds good to me! i may order 10g and 5g and go from there! thanks for all the amazing advice guys! and 1FASTQMB...i found out...that my scoot never really had a big bore at all! must be the 3.50 tires giving it that extra boost of speed, who knows! check this video out! www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVZ8snVGjIwould 5g and 10g weights be too big of a difference to toy with even if i space them out correctly? no matter. it will be super fun! thanks. 10g?...that will be like taking off in a stick shift car and going straight to 4th gear from a dead stop. llluuuuuuggggggg. as for the video...you do realize that was made by the owner of this forum right? |
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Post by 2strokd on Apr 3, 2012 2:13:13 GMT -5
Sure itl work ;D Run three 10,s and three .5,s :chinese: Jusssskiddin man :tongue: , i wouldnt suggest that :no: Ive found around 5.5g is the best on the ones i tune too  OEM torque spring |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 3, 2012 7:09:38 GMT -5
That's my vid and it should be noted that 5g vs 7g there was :
1) A 90cc Minarelli 2T (completely different engine)
2) What worked for my setup, and meant to document changes on that particular project. What you can use it for here is perhaps so you can see the difference between the right rollers/sliders and the wrong ones.
3) Was not intended as a comparison of 5g vs 7g on every setup.
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Post by 2strokd on Apr 3, 2012 8:54:26 GMT -5
That's my vid and it should be noted that 5g vs 7g there was : 1) A 90cc Minarelli 2T (completely different engine) 2) What worked for my setup, and meant to document changes on that particular project. What you can use it for here is perhaps so you can see the difference between the right rollers/sliders and the wrong ones. 3) Was not intended as a comparison of 5g vs 7g on every setup. Great points!!! Each scooter is its own beast... With its own lil appetite :scoot: :scoot2: |
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