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Post by lshigham on May 13, 2012 10:36:38 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on May 13, 2012 11:21:58 GMT -5
Good article. Thanks for linking us. I still think a BBK is the best choice for most, but maybe I haven't ran into a stock pipe as bad as theirs? Liek they said, quality certainly can vary. None of my scoots are newer than 2008, so they might have gotten even worse? Project 90 was in the mid to upper 50MPH range with a stock 49cc pipe off of the 2008 at 96cc displacement. I sometimes wonder if dyno graphs tell the whole story. I even had a well known dyno tuner tell me to ignore the numbers my car put down, because on the ground it's faster than a lot of cars putting down much higher numbers.
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Post by teddy554 on May 13, 2012 12:18:39 GMT -5
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Post by teddy554 on May 13, 2012 13:36:45 GMT -5
they say sometimes you might have to up jet for a 70 cc mild kit and if you do only about 2%, they are saying 10% for pipe why are the so low on jet size everyone i know or ask are always in 90 range
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Post by 90GTVert on May 13, 2012 13:47:50 GMT -5
I usually say it varies. My very first Triton had a 70 main stock and I never changed it with a BBK and pipe and it ran just slightly rich using stock carb and airbox. I put a very similar kit on someone's scoot minus the exhaust and had to go to a 95, but he had the snorkel removed. He actually had the air filter removed before I worked on it too, cause a local shop told him it would make more power.  If people are removing the snorkel, that's a sure fire way to need a bigger jet, unless it's already rich. Not all stock carbs and airboxes and prob intakes and reeds are created equal and they definitely aren't all jetted the same stock. |
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Post by reveeen on May 13, 2012 14:24:36 GMT -5
they say sometimes you might have to up jet for a 70 cc mild kit and if you do only about 2%, they are saying 10% for pipe why are the so low on jet size everyone i know or ask are always in 90 range I *think* you have to take ANYTHING these guys say "with a grain of salt". It was not too long ago they were pushing Stage6 stuff, especially the pipes, out the door, with the misguided claim they were "better" than the LV ZX. So where is the Stage6 test/graph/propaganda? Try comparing those pipe tests with the real life Broation situation. Funny how the ZX pipe is no longer "working" @9000-9500, but in this case @8000-8500, right where they claimed the cheaper TT would work (one is left to guess you don't make as much money selling the cheaper TT over the ZX). In fact, if the engine design "works" @ a lower rpm, maybe the TT would be a better choice than the Motoforce they are pushing, but in this case the TT is not tested, so we are left to assume (correctly, or not) that there is more money selling a Motoforce pipe over a LV TT. An "interesting read" for sure, but I am left wondering how much of it is "fact" and how much is "fiction? |
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Post by lshigham on May 13, 2012 16:01:04 GMT -5
Is is probable that the stock pipe on the one they tested is worse than what you're used to Brent, they're a bit stricter on noise, emissions and enforcing the 31mph max speed - I suspect it may be more restrictive in order to get the speed down. they say sometimes you might have to up jet for a 70 cc mild kit and if you do only about 2%, they are saying 10% for pipe why are the so low on jet size everyone i know or ask are always in 90 range I *think* you have to take ANYTHING these guys say "with a grain of salt". It was not too long ago they were pushing Stage6 stuff, especially the pipes, out the door, with the misguided claim they were "better" than the LV ZX. So where is the Stage6 test/graph/propaganda? Try comparing those pipe tests with the real life Broation situation. Funny how the ZX pipe is no longer "working" @9000-9500, but in this case @8000-8500, right where they claimed the cheaper TT would work (one is left to guess you don't make as much money selling the cheaper TT over the ZX). In fact, if the engine design "works" @ a lower rpm, maybe the TT would be a better choice than the Motoforce they are pushing, but in this case the TT is not tested, so we are left to assume (correctly, or not) that there is more money selling a Motoforce pipe over a LV TT. An "interesting read" for sure, but I am left wondering how much of it is "fact" and how much is "fiction? You do have to remember that the rpm a pipe peaks at is influenced by the cylinder too. |
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Post by reveeen on May 13, 2012 17:41:29 GMT -5
You do have to remember that the rpm a pipe peaks at is influenced by the cylinder too.
That is what makes the LV TT a better "fit" for this situation, but strangely it is missing....... even the Stage6 Pro Replica is a better fit, but it too is missing in action.
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Post by aeroxbud on May 13, 2012 18:09:25 GMT -5
Was intresting to see the limiter. For a cheap solution you think they would of just limited the travel of the variator like most of the other brands
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Post by teddy554 on May 13, 2012 21:09:17 GMT -5
my cpi was the same way the wire went all the way to the cdi and the clutch bell has a little bump on it like on the flywheel, but also had the ring on the variator.
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Post by lshigham on May 14, 2012 1:25:17 GMT -5
You do have to remember that the rpm a pipe peaks at is influenced by the cylinder too.That is what makes the LV TT a better "fit" for this situation, but strangely it is missing....... even the Stage6 Pro Replica is a better fit, but it too is missing in action. I see what you mean now. I'll ask him why, it's likely though it's because they keep a ZX lying around for direct cylinder comparisons and may not have a TT or Pro Rep to test with. |
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Post by reveeen on May 14, 2012 3:18:38 GMT -5
Being "an old cynic", I am afraid I see advertising for Motoforce pipes, where some see useful information.
And, of course, does that ZX still have the EU restriction in it? (one would *think* it still does, being an "off the shelf comparison"), not to mention the LV "kit" (light rollers and heavier clutch springs).... was the "kit" installed?
One would *think* an un-restricted LV pipe, the light rollers, and heavy clutch springs would give you a scooter that would hit hard enough to power up the front wheel.
The other problem I have is this: upgrade path. The addition of a Motoforce pipe to one's scooter is of limited long term benefit. At some time in a scooter's life it will need re-built, let me suggest that a person likely to change a brand new exhaust system (on a new scooter) is likely too: upgrade to a 70cc cylinder, and possibly before it is really needed....... I *wonder* just how well a Motoforce pipe will work with an upgraded cylinder, possibly with other upgrades too? We do know you will be good to go with the ZX.
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