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Post by Azraeille on May 14, 2012 1:58:58 GMT -5
I'm not talking about plug chops. That's just not accurate enough for me.
I'd like a relatively affordable tool/technique that will let me check the actual air/fuel mixture. With a visible readout if possible. Can someone point me in the right direction?
And I doubt it'd matter but I've got a 50cc 2T
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Post by reveeen on May 14, 2012 3:10:09 GMT -5
I'd like a relatively affordable tool/technique that will let me check the actual air/fuel mixture.
You and everybody else.
What you want is called an "exhaust gas analyzer". Available as a stand alone unit, or within a tune up analyzer, and keeping firmly in mind there are "replaceables" (filters), and regular service required, it is hardly something for a home user.
You could weld a bung in your exhaust pipe, screw in an oxygen sensor, and build something to power/take readings off of it, but expect a few hours of "shop time" with an exhaust analyzer to correlate your readings.
A pyrometer was quite a popular accessory at one time, and still is in some circles, keeping track of your exhaust gas temperature can give a pretty good idea how an engine is running/working.
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Post by Azraeille on May 14, 2012 5:17:38 GMT -5
I guess I should kinda clarify "relatively affordable"  I don't mean cheap necessarily. Just something that works well and would be accurate to plus or minus .3 parts air to fuel. Just out of curiosity, what WOULD be geared more towards a home user in terms of usability? If the price is high then it's just something I'll have to drool over until I save up enough money  |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 14, 2012 7:04:16 GMT -5
It does matter that it's a 2T. From discussions we've had here in the past, a wideband o2 and meter or an EGT sound like the best options. None of us have tried 'em yet that I know of. Snowmobile racers, big 2Ts, seem to stick with those 2 options from what I've read. Some have said the 2Ts are tricky because of the way tuned pipes work. If you did opt to try a wideband, you may want to use one of these... www.bikebandit.com/koso-air-fuel-ratio-meter-2-stroke-adapterI use a cylinder head temperature gauge on a couple of my scoots. It won't give you any sort of reading on AFR, but once you get used to it does aid tuning. Mine likes to run right around 300 degrees WOT. If it's high I know it's lean, if it's low I know it's rich. If you get it in tune and pay attention to where temps are under different conditions it's very helpful, but if you're looking for something that tells you exactly when your mixture is right under any scenario, it won't do it. |
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Post by Azraeille on May 14, 2012 8:07:32 GMT -5
Alright! A bit expensive but at least I know what I'm looking for now :] One last question though [for now ] Is there an air/fuel meter that can be used without installing an O2 sensor? Preferably for 2T and 4T but 2T being the priority. Obviously it wouldn't be for permanently mounting up to the scooter but something I could use on several scoots without having to drill them. I have a couple buddies getting into scoots and as limited as my knowledge of small engines is right now, I'm leaps and bounds ahead of them. It'd be nice to tune their scoots as well or better than these shady mechanics that will charge $50+ an hour in labor. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 8:22:30 GMT -5
shady mechanics that will charge $50+ an hour in labor. Not all $50 an hour independent mechanics are shady. I have been turning wrenches for 25 years, I have professional training....and i'm honest. Please do not generalize. |
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Post by Azraeille on May 14, 2012 22:51:15 GMT -5
I'm not generalizing. Shady is what sets you and "them" apart. There are people that do honest work for honest prices, but they're definitely the minority particularly in the scooter field. I'm not setting out to cut down anyone here. Whether they work from their home or have a full shop. New or experienced. The first scooter I bought was a piece of crap and when trying to troubleshoot it, I knew more about it than he did! This is a guy who's business card claims he does scooter repair and maintenance. At $75/hour by the way. Not all repairmen are created equal.
I'm still searching for a device that will let me read air/fuel mix without making a permanent mod to someone's scooter.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 22:53:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 23:01:41 GMT -5
thats a CO reader though so its only going to tell you so much. one that also does O2 and HC would be better....but we are only dealing with a small single cylinder engine here. Plug readings have always been good enough for me...but ive been looking at them for many many years. If you gotta have it though and your wallet is fat enough...here it is.... www.tooloutfitters.net/hand-held-exhaust-5-gas-analyzer.htmlIt doesnt say exactly what it reads but if its a '5 gas' anylizer it would most likely be CO, CO2, O2, NOX and HC |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 23:07:20 GMT -5
Obviously one would also need the knowledge and experience to interpret the readings as well. A scapel in the hand does not make one a surgeon.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 23:11:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 23:16:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 23:25:21 GMT -5
you would have to have your own pipe with the sensor tapped into it already and put that on....but being its 2-strokes you want to use it on....this presents problems in itself since different pipes make 2t motors run differently.
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Post by reveeen on May 15, 2012 3:40:21 GMT -5
It may be possible to adapt the portion, of a stand alone fuel injection system, that reads the air/fuel mixture, to display the air/fuel mixture.
All, modern, electronically controlled, fuel injection systems have some method of reading the current air/fuel mixture of a running engine. I am suggesting you isolate this function and use it to your advantage. You will probably not get enough information from the manufacturers to do this with regular commercial systems, but hobbyist systems, like Mega Squirt, are fully documented, and you should be able to use only the air/fuel reading function.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2012 8:20:28 GMT -5
I'd just go wideband o2 and meter I think before I did that. My car has a MegaSquirt II. It's gonna want you to use a wideband o2 with it anyway. You'll still need a gauge to see a readout unless you want to carry around the laptop and do datalogging or try to watch the screen while you ride. I guess if you can get it setup to control the coil it could have a benefit, but otherwise it makes more sense to me to just skip the hassle and install the wideband and gauge. It's not just the MS that would want a wideband BTW. The stuff I've read suggests widebands for 2Ts and if you do use a narrow band o2 keep it for the 4T. Even with a wideband and EGT and CHT, sounds like the tuners are still checking their plugs to verify when dealing with 2Ts.
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I don't mean cheap necessarily. Just something that works well and would be accurate to plus or minus .3 parts air to fuel.
