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Post by 190mech on May 14, 2019 16:52:52 GMT -5
Thread jack,,I received a package from ryan_ott and got a cool piece of his art work also! Super Cool! Thanks!!!
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Post by ryan_ott on May 14, 2019 19:09:33 GMT -5
I came across that idea looking for pictures of things to make. I figured it would look at home with you. It’ll help keep paperwork in place next time you fire one up. Enjoy.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 14, 2019 21:29:34 GMT -5
I just came in from the garage because I was extremely frustrated. No pics right now, because I have no patience to go through resizing and watermarking and uploading.
So, I went out to take a ride so I could aim the headlight and make sure that I could see without other drivers flashing me like my high beams were on. Simple enough in theory. What actually happened was that I started the scooter and got my gear on and it heated up to 250F at it's peak. I thought the gauge was being crazy at first, but then I realized that the CHT was following it closely.
All hoses aside from the one from cylinder to pump were cold, so I was sure the water pump drive failed somehow. Took it off and the pin and the coupler are both worn. The coupler on the outer edge, because the impeller is sitting so the pin is right up against the bearing. I tried pulling the impeller out and it doesn't want to move.
Seems like the safe route would be to set it up with the stock drive system. Can't do that with this pump as-is because of where the drive pin is sitting and rubbing the pump bearing. Aside from that resistance, the wheel couldn't grip much of the pin. Would have to be taken apart to drive the impeller in again and then cross fingers that it stayed. This housing sucks because it was wrong from the start and I had to shim it for bearings to stay in.
I did rebuild the busted housing as an emergency backup, so that may be what gets used. I don't dare try the coupler right now because I don't want 2 messed up pumps. Even if the depth stayed correct, I guess pins and couplers will wear as-is.
Suddenly I wish I tried an electric pump. No time for all of that ATM.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2019 5:34:52 GMT -5
Alright, I'll post the pics now. Sorry I didn't get 'em up last night. I'm usually pretty calm/level, but I was really tired last night and already wondering if I'm gonna crash the thing again because maybe the frame is bent and then that happened. So then not only have I made parts that probably aren't going to work for both me and Ryan, but I have 1 day before I was hoping to go to the car show and it looks like I'm headed back to the stock setup that sheared off a pin on the last ride with a patched up housing. I guess I could take this one apart and drive the impeller back down and hope it stays, but it already got stuck once so now I'm not sure if that's a great idea. I will say though, it must have been turning the pump pretty well still when it sheared, or it didn't shear till the crash. It was running about 20 degrees hot, but the temp just shot up at idle with it apparently not be driven last night. I'm not really sure why or when it pushed the impeller in. Doesn't look like the pin was slipping across the face of the coupler since pretty much no paint is gone. There was plenty of depth in the groove for the pin to just move back, but maybe it got stuck on the ledges from wear? I thought maybe the steel could be heat treated to withstand the abuse better, but then I've still got pin wear unless that can also be treated. But then I thought, I may just look into e-pumps again after the car show. The mechanical pumps seemed like a reliable and kinda simple setup... till I sheared a pin and then did this with a coupler. Hopefully I can get it back together and it'll work for at least 500 miles with the stock drive setup. Anyway, here are the pics : Here you can see I put a new pin in, but with the impeller positioned so the pin rubs the bearing it's no good.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2019 8:19:14 GMT -5
I took the S6 pump apart and drove the impeller all the way in again. You can see how much it moved. I don't know which way it is supposed to be, be the Hoca assy with a rebuild kit in it lets the shaft move with just finger pressure. Seems like the S6 deal gets stuck if it does move. There's nothing to move it back. With the more free impeller shaft, at least if something did push it in, it may come back. Prob sticking with the plan to go with the HOCA. I just flushed out the system with water and then distilled water because I think I'm just gonna fill it up with standard ethylene glycol coolant this time. The propylene glycol Bel Ray Motochill was already gone and diluted a bit with distilled water and I don't feel like paying $12 per liter (50/50) for it vs $15 per gal for concentrated stuff. I have enough coolant here to do it now. I like the non-toxic stuff so I don't have to worry about my dog or the squirrels in the driveway, but it's too expensive when the thing has to be apart all of the time.
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Post by ryan_ott on May 15, 2019 9:41:44 GMT -5
Can you cut down a spacer or spring to go between the pin and bearing? I was thinking to do that to hold the impeller into the seal.
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Post by 190mech on May 15, 2019 12:03:49 GMT -5
I think the stock water pump drive setup is designed to cushion the pump drive from crank vibrations as the crank slows and speeds up with each revolution so a ratcheting action is going on there..
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Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2019 16:23:16 GMT -5
I put it together with the HOCA pump and rebuild kit and the stock drive setup. I spent about an hour making a washer that matched the diameter of the inner race of the bearing and then got larger with a larger bore and taper because the drive gear has a conical shape and I didn't want to push the gear away from the shaft and pin. I cut away a little more from the flat section too so the spacer hit the pin and not the gear. The whole thing is about 0.100" thick. That's why I didn't use a spring. I tried at first, but I didn't like anything touching one surface that spins and one that doesn't. Seemed like I'd just be waiting on it to fail. So, I needed to shorten the washer a little and then took it off of the small side that matched the inner race of the bearing. That ruined it, because It didn't sit up enough to clear the pump housing since the bearing sits in there a little. I wasn't a huge fan of what I had anyway and at that point I decided I can't spend all day playing around with this right now. I just installed it as it would be stock, but with the titanium pin. I filled it up with about a 60/40 mix of ethylene glycol and distilled water and let it bleed for a few minutes idling. Then I filled the expansion tank maybe 1/3 full and went for a ride. It ran around 140 for a bit. Great. Then I'm doing 50MPH and coolant starts spewing out of the expansion tank. I look down and the tank is now totally full. Temp goes up to as much as 160 and then it stops losing coolant. It fluctuates from 140 to 160 or so and then I ride around town. Now it's 140 at one point and 200 later and everywhere in between. At that point I'm thoroughly depressed because any car show aspirations are fading rapidly. I pulled over to change batteries in the GoPro and took the cap off of the radiator. There's pressure, but it's hot. Coolant is low. The full expansion tank doesn't drain in at all. I take the cap off of the expansion tank and the coolant rushes back in. The temp immediately drops to about 135 and then makes it's way to 124. Nice. I get back on and decide to ride around town some more to see how it does. I see a guy on a Zuma and do a little wheelie at him, but he doesn't follow. Damn. I rode around town and it stayed between the 120s to low 140s. Hot damn! Alright, gotta get home to cook dinner. I start cruising with traffic at 50-60MPH and it stays in the 140s for about 5 miles. Then it shoots up. It was at 190 when I pulled into a gas station because I wanted to check mileage. It's about where it was... terrible... ~28MPG... the same as the '05 Nissan Altima. Fired it back up and did another little wheelie for a guy that was staring at the scoot. Temp was around 150. It was around 2 miles to home and it was getting hot again. Pulled the cap again and pressure pushed out some coolant and the full reservoir again didn't move till I cracked the top. Right now, I'm thinking maybe I should replace the head o-rings tonight. Seems odd that the expansion tank won't let anything drain back. I don't think it ever has. I've also pretty much always had pressure under the cap as long as this thing has been LC, even when it's cold.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2019 22:03:07 GMT -5
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Post by oldgeek on May 15, 2019 22:25:39 GMT -5
Would it seal up using only the o-rings and some copper spray?
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Post by 90GTVert on May 16, 2019 3:51:39 GMT -5
Never tried. When I was going LC, some suggested smearing with sealant and I've stuck with that.
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Post by oldgeek on May 16, 2019 5:13:27 GMT -5
I think copper spray for the head would provide a closer fit and better heat transfer due to metal to metal contact. Some type of sealant on the water jacket o-ring for sure
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Post by 90GTVert on May 16, 2019 10:56:28 GMT -5
When I look at the o-rings, I wish they would have made the cylinder to jacket one as beefy as the outer one. The one that takes the most stress looks the wimpiest. I guess it would be tough to fit that big sucker in there around the studs with this big bore though. Just got back from OC. Prob good that I took my father in the truck because it rained for an hour or more on the way home. Beautiful morning at the beach though and I guess they had so many cars that they started early. It was supposed to start at 8AM and we got there at 7:40 and cars were already going down the boardwalk. The line of cars staging went from something like 10th street all the way to where they enter the boardwalk on 27th when I was headed to park. It's like having a car show come to you. Sit on a bench by the beach and watch 'em roll by. Took the DSLR, which I never use, and filmed with that. I know I missed some because I didn't realize it cut off automatically on video at 30 minutes, but if it's not total crap you may see some 4K footage of that at some point. Only snapped one quick pic of a car that was parked by the boardwalk. I wanted to take a few of this car with "SINISTER" on the tag, but it turned out that he was one of the parade watchers and not just parked for a hotel.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 16, 2019 13:58:03 GMT -5
I got T2 put back together and filled it with coolant again. Let it run in the garage to see if any air bubbles needed to escape and it got up to about 150F idling. I was a little nervous at that point, because it can stay pretty cool when stopped, but there's no air moving in the garage. I took it down the road for about 8 miles and it ran the same as before, but temps dropped and stayed in the upper 110s to 120s.
Part of me wants to mess with the carb, but I think I should just leave it alone. I know it can be used this way and it's running well right now. I may just make sure the idle is good, re-torque the head, swap in a new drive belt, check the tire pressures again and leave it alone till I try to ride to the car show.
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Post by ryan_ott on May 16, 2019 16:39:29 GMT -5
FWIW the Polini bores I’ve run, yes ac but still o-ring heads, I’ve never added any additional sealants and I’ve never lost a gasket.
Bring an extra gasket and water on the trip...
Good luck and be safe!
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